290 - Erotic Embodiment for Healing and Empowerment with Tiffany Dawn Chambers-Goldberg

Today I'm joined by Tiffany Dawn Chambers-Goldberg, an erotic embodiment practitioner and the creator of Dance Brave, a somatic movement practice for women who want to love their body, feel more confident, and erase pain. 

In this fascinating conversation, we explore the intricate relationships between our nervous system, pleasure, and creativity, and how erotic embodiment helps women to reintegrate sensuality into their lives while supporting healing, self-acceptance, and freedom.

Connect with Tiffany through her website and Instagram

Weekly stories by email from Bonnie’s HERE

Connect with Bonnie: Instagram, Email (hello@bonnieweeks.com), Website
Listen to Bonnie's other podcast Sexy Sunday HERE

The music for this episode is Threads by The Light Meeting.
Produced by: Grey Tanner

Transcript

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (00:03.363)
Welcome to the podcast, my loves. I feel honored today to be with our guest, somebody who gets to co-host this with me today. That's really what it is. Everybody's on here, like, you get to be part of this. And the gift of it, I think I'm just sitting in truly like this deep awe of the ways that we just get to continue to

meet and the way the timing is sometimes unexpected for all of us, but it's always the right time. so with my guest today, Tiffany Chambers Goldberg, she and I have done a podcast years ago. Like it was probably two years ago. I didn't even look before we popped on, but I was like, it's a couple of years ago now. I kind think it was COVID times.

But we did a podcast on my other podcast, Sexy Sunday, and it was amazing. I would so recommend going to check it out to share that in the show notes. this will jump off that, it will be all the things that it will be. But I feel really grateful to bring a conversation here on Yoga Strong and with this idea of paying attention to our lives and if that's the definition of what I am calling yoga.

and how that truly includes everything we do and that strength is a nuance sort of thing. It's not just being able to flex your muscles, right? And I think the conversations that I'm so interested in helping people rise in their leadership and stand in themselves and how impactful it leaves the room when you do so. And Tiffany is somebody

does that, who lives that, who leads that, who guides other people to that. And in a way of being able to deeply give themselves permission and acknowledge what they want and how they want to move. And it opens people up. And I think this feels like an important conversation for me because I have found so much of my own strength in leadership.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (02:30.389)
and in standing in myself because of my embrace of my own sensuality and sexuality and embodiment. And it's not something that I might come out of the gates and talk about and be the front runner in conversations with people. But when people work one-on-one with me, like we often get to this place then of like, how are you in yourself? And so Tiffany does this. She leads from the front. She has more than one thing. She has a mother.

She's a central embodiment leader. She's a lover. She's a woman. She's somebody who is running schedules and doing all the things that we do. She is somebody who understands that sensuality and sexuality are a power for your life and to build your most creative life. And not just a turn on to connect with the lover, but as a way to be in yourself and in your experience. And ultimately,

I truly believe to change the world. Because if we can do that on an individual basis and then we show up one-on-one like that, that ripple effect truly changes the world. So welcome to the podcast, Tiffany. Thank you for being here.

Tiffany (03:45.806)
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Right away, actually, I would just love, there was a piece that just came through that I wanted to share just around, I don't remember exactly the sentence you used, but it's so much about how do you practice embodying yourself, right? Like how do you fully inhabit yourself before any sort of

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (03:49.597)
Mm. Mm.

Tiffany (04:16.366)
interruption came along that interrupted, I'm going to say your central channel, because it's a deep thread to embodying ourselves fully. I the science is already there. Part of me is like, I can't believe we're still having to talk about that to like convince people that this is like an inherent part of what it means to be alive.

Tiffany (04:43.48)
But yeah, like if you don't have a practice that you're tapping into of what it means to fully belong, to fully belong to you, right? Before you're thinking about, I belong to the world? You do. But how do I belong inside of all of myself? How do I accept every single facet of myself?

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (05:08.719)
Yeah, I mean, I think that is the question. I think that's why we're here today. Do you have a practice to fully belong to you before you belong to the world?

Okay, well, that's it. The embodiment of it.

I feel like...

If I were to jump myself back, I pulled up a picture of myself 10 years ago and I was like, wow, we have had some changes in the past 10 years. And I think all of us can look back at a picture 10 years ago and be like, oh, that self. I'm like, oh, baby Bonnie, like you're so sweet. You're doing so good. Keep going. But to have asked myself that question back then, I don't even know what I, I don't even know if I would have been able to understand the question.

Tiffany (06:11.673)
Yeah, you know it's so interesting because I also, I come from a lineage of yoga. I was a yoga teacher for 25, 30 years and what's so, I would have probably said something along the lines that had to do with yoga and how yoga made me feel. And I come from also an incredibly disciplined, kinesthetic, I was a competitive gymnast before I was a yoga teacher.

And the structure that was there in place is what gave me a sense of security, boundaries, and it was very familiar. And yoga was the kind of yoga that I learned earlier on, very similar to that kind of structure. And what I had found is that once I actually started introducing, sorry.

Once I started introducing erotic embodiment, there was this freedom to it, which can be incredibly scary. But that was when I was really starting to step into my fullness, where I could let go of the narrative of whatever Ashtanga or forest yoga or whatever these.

limitations that said you need to do it just like this, right? And I started to discover, but I'm not just that. I actually move a little bit differently and different things feel better to me and other things don't feel pleasurable to me. And that my thread became about following pleasure more than about following the structure of being a good girl, you know, being in line, being a good student, right? Being, yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (07:38.891)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (07:49.071)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (07:53.827)
Yeah. Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (07:59.841)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and like for me, I would have just been have landed, you know, you have been part of yoga world for longer than I have. And so I've been doing yoga things for 11 years. So I was the very beginning of that. And I was very much in the place of and, and thinking of the trajectory of like the structure of things and yoga and gymnastics where there's like, this how you hold your hands is how you hold your body. Your posture has to look a certain way. And I

Tiffany (08:00.376)
So yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (08:29.493)
I, this is one of the things I tell people, I'm like, yoga helped me learn how to dance in that it gave so much structure that then I had, I had the boundaries. I'm like, this is what you do. This is how you do it until like over time. I think going from practices where it was very strict to then really loving vinyasa for myself, but still having a lot of teachers. There's so many ways that people teach vinyasa yoga and

teachers who are more strict with things and teachers who are less so and people who play with sequencing and people who don't play as much or people who's even really rooted in sun salutations. Like that's a totally different practice than releasing that. And I think for myself finding that freedom over time, but it really, there was a certain amount of structure to it at the beginning, which helped hold me and rewrite the

like give me a new pattern to step into that I didn't have prior to that without, yeah, without yoga and feeling awkward in my body in some ways, but also like living in the world and being asked to stand up in ways, but it like gave me that, like a box, which was really helpful. And you do weird things with your body and yoga.

So that's really helpful too. You're like, I'm to like twist here and do this. And we're going to be like on my shoulder and on my head and on my big toe. Okay, cool. So I think it funks you up enough where you're like, I'm doing weird shapes. And actually this is the right thing to do, to do a weird shape. Okay, cool. So it's like, you get to set down softly a little bit of like looking good in a normal world sort of sense. Like you can't go to the grocery store and like...

Be like, I'm to do thread the needle right now. Right? Like, it's like not like, what are you doing on the floor? So you're doing weird things on the floor, standing, et cetera, that already kind of break a pattern, but also give you a new pattern. And then for me then it's like a gradual kind of embodiment. Like the erotic side of that was definitely something I grew into and growing into. I don't know, make that an action. Not always. Current events.

Tiffany (10:51.855)
I am too, still, always. Yeah. Yeah, and I would agree. And I'm not, I hope it doesn't come across as anti-yoga. There's a scaffolding there that, yeah, that was, I mean, gosh, I was in it for such a long time, you know, and I devoured it. I loved it. I just got to a point where it was feeling limiting, you know.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (10:55.65)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (11:00.814)
no, I don't think that.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (11:09.679)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (11:18.665)
And part of the reason why I was there in the first place was because I was really hunting for this aspect that I finally found through erotic embodiment. I just didn't know it because it wasn't something that I had access to that I was, it was in my wheelhouse or my, you know, it wasn't happening. So I didn't know.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (11:31.075)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (11:38.689)
Yeah. I mean, I kind of want to like dive into definition land, but also like to you actually let's just do that. What, when you say erotic embodiment, what do you mean by that for definitions?

Tiffany (11:53.315)
Yeah.

my gosh, there's so much, there's so much here. So I might even want to backtrack a little bit more. You know, what I teach, at least a part of what it is that I teach really is about helping women reintegrate their sensuality into their daily lives. I do that through the lens of erotic embodiment because for a couple of reasons, one it's

really fun. I love it. But if you want to get to the science of it, it's because it really builds resiliency in your nervous system. It helps with regulation. So we don't get stuck on any one end of the spectrum, whether you're parasympathetic dominant or sympathetic dominant, that you're able to transition in and out of both of those places in order to recover.

and we can get into the minutia of nervous system stuff if you want to. The other piece of it is that it provides a really healthy expression of want, allowing ourselves to be able to move through from a physical, somatic, embodied movement practice our feelings of what we desire, what we crave, what we are enraged about.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (13:04.367)
Mm.

Tiffany (13:20.887)
what we're in fear about. It's like our shadow, our shame, our stress, all of those things have a place that deserve to be moved because if they are not, they end up becoming lodged in our systems. And if it's lodged in our system, then it comes out as behavior onto those that we are closest with. So our lovers, our children, our coworkers, our...

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (13:37.103)
Mm.

Tiffany (13:47.897)
family members very easily.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (13:50.916)
Wow.

Tiffany (13:53.909)
And I would say with erotic, let me just also say that within what it is that I do, you have sensuality, sexuality, desire, they all work independently of one another. They live in different spaces, but they can converge and come into a place together if that's something that you want to do. To me, eroticism has to do with desire and pleasure.

What moves us from point A to point B is our desire, right? I want a sandwich. How am I gonna go and get that sandwich, right? What moves me and how do I then experience the pleasure of, or do I, of making it, of eating it, of digesting it, of it's like every single piece that goes into the sensory input of

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (14:36.879)
Yeah.

Tiffany (14:53.527)
of how I'm experiencing myself in the present moment.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (15:00.333)
Mmm, yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (15:06.83)
I like this as a, I'm going to jump back a little bit to what you said of like talking about navigating your nervous system and this healthy expression of want. And then jump to desire and pleasure and weave this in. But I love the nerdy part of me, like the brain part of me that like loves to be like, okay, where can we root these things in more than just like feel good kind of vibes.

I think that's, I so respect that too. And I love talking about the science of things because I'm like, okay, we can, we have a solid why in this. there could be a lot of things that I hear in the world where I'm like, wait, but they're just like saying shit. Like how, how can you just say it? Like, where can we like state land in this? And it can be a lived experience. Yes. But, how do I hold people? Like as a leader myself, I'm like, how do I hold people so they feel like they can be confident in what they are going to be delivering?

and understand why it's impactful, why it's useful, and then how to play with it, how to like find pleasure in it. And so that it is this combination of things. so I love that you're like, okay, let's talk about why is this important? Why is erotic embodiment important? It's because like, what does this, how does this impact your nervous system? And our nervous system is being like pinged all day long. And so you talking about how you regulate that.

and how you pay attention to yourself. And that alone is like a huge part, I think, of the power of it. And depending on, you know, I think in my learning about marketing, I'm gonna take this business land, right? If we were to swing and say, how do people make decisions to buy something? You could Google the four types of buyers.

And you're going to come up with a list of like marketing world has created four types of buyers in all of us. Like we have different brains, reason we make different decisions, different brains. And I think of that here too. like, okay, how do we help, you know, if you and I are interested, we're doing different work, but if we're interested in like helping people embody themselves, then what are the words we can use to help people be like, this makes sense to me. This is a place I can walk into.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (17:25.571)
and I'm coming here to talk about nervous system, I can understand that. I don't really know, I'm not really sure about pleasure or want, but I can hold this and I can lean there. Or somebody else are like, we're talking about pleasure, great. Okay, we're gonna talk about the nervous system. Ooh, that's cool that there's totally a line. So I love that we can hold more than one thing even in the delivery of definition, because I think it can be an entryway for different sorts of brains and people.

Tiffany (17:53.355)
Yeah, I also think it's really important for people to understand that your nervous system is as unique as a thumbprint. So it's really easy to kind of deliver this information, but it's much more nuanced than whatever we're going to get through in an hour and a half. I work with a lot of people who have complex trauma. And so when someone is coming in and they've

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (18:08.783)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (18:21.391)
navigated something like sexual abuse. It's so individual what their nervous system is really navigating and what we're and someone is going to be completely in a sympathetic state and someone's going to be completely in a parasympathetic state. And that will look different person to person to person and what's needed in that moment is going to completely change depending on how someone's system is responding to.

maybe because it's a dark room, do they need it a little bit lighter? How does their nervous system respond by saying yes or no? It's just so incredibly layered and nuanced.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (18:55.065)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (19:00.303)
Yeah, no, that absolutely makes sense. Like working with people one-on-one, it changes everything. And I think we can forget in a room of people, we're like, okay, well, everybody's here, we're all the same, we're all gonna like experience this in a certain way. And we know that that's like not totally true, but also we can't escape it having a group effect. And I think the gift of working one-on-one is remembering that. You're like, whoa, wow.

I think that all the time for when I talk to yoga teachers that are there where they say, I'm only teaching private one-on-ones right now. I'm not teaching group. I'm like, my gosh, you're doing amazing then because what you're going to be able to bring to the group is so much more empathy and understanding and language to help lead a group where you will have no idea what people are coming with. Yeah. Let's.

Tiffany (19:49.743)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (19:56.064)
Let's stay on this thread for just a minute. Like, will you talk more science? Like, let's do, let's do dive in. Like, I would love for you to like bring more of that if what you love to share about the science behind erotic embodiment. Let's go there since we're there.

Tiffany (20:14.019)
Yeah, well...

Whenever there has been an interruption of the way that one experiences pleasure in life through shame, through trauma, through stress, and also somebody's shadow, which are the things that we feel that we need to exile, the parts of us that we think that don't belong, we are so good at hiding it, we even hide it from ourselves, and that comes out in behavior also.

Those get wired into your nervous system and how you respond to everything, every single room that you walk into, the people that you come across. Your nervous system works in like lightning speed before your brain can even contextualize like, why am I upset? Am I upset? Your body has already said yes or no, basically. And how it says yes or no will change. So

It's not that, I think there's a lot of people who will tend to think that we just need to constantly down regulate. Like we're too stressed out, we're too anxious, we're in this sympathetic fight flight state and we need to move into the rest and digest. But you have positives, I'm gonna say positive and negative, I don't really love to put it in those terms, but helpful and helpful maybe.

If you are in a sympathetic state and you have a lot of anxiety, that's one form of it. But it could also mean that you are moving forward, that you are excited, that you are taking steps towards achieving goals, right? It could be like, it's a very action-oriented state and it can be really, really healthy. When it is overactive because you have then crossed over into anxiety,

Tiffany (22:09.071)
It can become debilitating, very difficult to embody yourself, to feel into the present moment. It's very easy to ignore illness, to ignore signals that your body is telling you to slow down, pay attention. There's just so much wisdom that comes into listening, being able to attune to your nervous system and notice when you're dysregulated. The opposite side of that would be

you know, your parasympathetic state where you're going into rest and digest, but you could also be depressed. If you're always living in that parasympathetic state and you feel almost catatonic, right? Then what is it that's going to help to shift you into more of a sympathetic state, right? And so when we're

When we're connecting to our sensuality, our sensuality is a direct thread to our creativity, to our desire. Again, I'll bring that in. If you're disconnected from that part of you, it's going to make it very difficult to, this is gonna sound probably ethereal, but I would say connect to the medicine that moves through you.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (23:10.735)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (23:16.078)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (23:31.063)
Every single, I believe, every single human comes here with specific, unique kind of gifts. And if it is difficult to access that, it's usually because you're disconnected to your sensual self, which is different from your sexual self.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (23:39.876)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (23:54.616)
Mmm.

Tiffany (23:54.81)
Does that answer your question? you want? You curious about something else?

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (23:57.455)
I love that even as this last point to ping on, if that we, I so believe this, like we really do come with our own gifts, our own things that we arrive in the world with as something to birth, something to create, a way to connect, like a way to be. that the way that our like sensuality and creativity is totally connected. Like this is...

Like how do we birth things in a physical sort of sense in the world as humans, right? As an animal, like how are things birthed? And the creative process being such a deep embodiment or desiring a deep embodiment of self because it's the same energy, sensual energy and creative energy are very much coming from the same place in us.

And I love that as a line of thinking about how we bring our gifts to the world. that's so been my experience.

Tiffany (25:07.247)
Yeah, I would also add that pleasure, eroticism, sensuality really introduces or asks you to stay and to feel and to begin to expand your capacity for being able to feel safe and whatever that means to you. So the more you explore your relationship to your sensuality, the more you're getting familiar with like, what is keeping me from feeling safe?

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (25:18.371)
Noooo

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (25:36.845)
Yeah.

Tiffany (25:37.199)
What is keeping me from feeling good or from allowing myself to fully, again, from like the very beginning, like to fully belong to myself, to fully inhabit and express myself authentically without feeling pain or guilt.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (25:41.465)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (25:52.079)
Mmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (25:56.291)
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Like what is it? What's keeping you from feeling good? is it? What's the block? And then sometimes we don't see those blocks, which is why the work that you do is also so impactful for working with people one-on-one. You're like, wait, what? And they're like, oh, what is that question? Like why? And even you asked me before we started recording, like why didn't I get a poll until like earlier this year? I feel like this.

flows with this conversation here of like, like when, like when do we do it? Or what's the, when's the yes. And when you give a yes or when you identify something that you have or have not done or allowed yourself to do or not do and be like, what's the desire and what's in the way of the desire and what does it say about you? What's the story you have to retell about yourself to give yourself the opportunity to want and then to actually follow through on that. And.

Yeah, so I got a poll.

Tiffany (26:55.503)
Yeah, and I asked that question too, because you are just like me, you've traversed embodiment in all different kinds of aspects and you're so curious. And so I wouldn't necessarily say that to every single woman that I meet. Why haven't you purchased a pole yet? But I was curious because to me it already fit within what the framework of how you already inhabit your life. And so I was curious, like, I wonder what bridged that.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (26:57.39)
you

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (27:18.34)
Yeah.

Tiffany (27:25.091)
for you.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (27:25.931)
Yeah. Yeah. Which is such a fun question. And it's something, you know, I had talked about getting a poll for a long time and my, my oldest kid is 19. And I remember him years ago being like, just don't get a poll, mom. Like, don't turn our house into a stripper club. I'm like, y'all having a poll in your house does not mean that you're a stripper. Like, but the poll doesn't make a club.

Yes. And I can think of him saying that, not that that was a deterrent for me. He has had a journey with me. My kids are very, different in their... I guess I want to use the word embrace. They're embracing of seeing me as a sensual mother. It's very different. My oldest kid, the way that he observes me versus my middle versus my youngest kid, they're all very...

They feel different ways about that. that's a different, that's a motherhood tangent of things. But I think this year, and because it's already been in my head and I've already enjoyed watching people on the poll, I think because of, I think,

I think how you're talking about, you what is a healthy expression of want and what do you want? And I've had so many conversations with people who are trying to lead shit. They're trying to create things in the yoga world, people who are trying to build a business and lead others and do it really well. And a lot of some of the work that I do in one-on-one mentorship with people too is saying like, what do you want? And not just like, what do you want in business, but like,

Like what do you want? Like just you for you because it's like when I'm embodied in me, then I show up so much better everywhere else. I show up like truly actually as me. And so.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (29:39.393)
how to be succinct in this. And so I think like part of my journey to getting a poll is

has to do with acknowledging what I wanted in relationship and in a lovership, like in a partnership. And the person I was with for four years, that relationship ended in January and it was a sticky ending, a beautiful like future relationship and like, but like complicated over this past year and

even when you're speaking to the stuckness that we can get in ourselves when we don't pay attention to the wants or how we want to shift or how do you express the anger or what's in here, what's in the way and then to create enough space to even say what's in the way and then to be able to hear what's in the way. There's so many little layers in that.

And having somebody to guide of course is like super helpful in that. But I think in my journey, there was a lot of layers in that. And I experienced quite a bit of low back pain in my left SI. Like I was debilitated. Like it was the worst thing I've ever physically experienced. Like I couldn't do anything and it was for months and I couldn't even sleep. And it was really just the most terrible. And it was even the beginning last spring.

Tiffany, this is all gonna loop back, we're gonna have a little moment here last spring. Then my back was still having its things. And I was like, you know what? And this moment to myself, I was like, I will no longer have this pain when I am honest about what I want in relationship.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (31:43.231)
and I no longer have that pain, but who you have to do the things to make that happen. And it is not easy. Like it's not easy. It's like deeply like going into your life and saying, what do I want? And trying to do that as kindly and gracefully as possible with the people in your life.

And now I've ended up here and I have changed my relationship, which I loved and was also ready to be something else. And that's like a really hard thing to hold like two truths at the same time to deeply love somebody and to deeply love something else also. And it's okay that they're like, they can both exist there. But it was in that change then that was truly broke me open in some big ways.

that then I had a space to give myself or I was like, now I just get a poll. Like it was not even a question. was like, well, I went to like two classes and I was like, now I order my poll and now we do the things. And it was just like that there's the opening, like, then so it's so much, think about paying attention to like the little pings of saying like what.

What is it and it truly is the stuckness. I got to that point at end of last year, was like, nothing can move. was like, something has to happen because I can't move. Nobody else can move. Like I have to like, I'm I'm gonna choose some things. I'm gonna make some moves in some ways and it's gonna be a lot, but like I can't move.

And I think the stuck energy, and it doesn't have to be a physical thing, I, so I like that, you know, this is the word that you're using here too, to bring this in is like the stuck energy of like, have nowhere to move. And so you don't have to have, I don't think people have to have like a, like an embodiment, like super embodied awareness necessarily, but if you can just identify stuckness and just start there, cause like, we can feel that you're like,

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (33:53.643)
I feel like, and it could be depression, right? It could be like, I can't get out of this. Like you're just stuck. It feels like whatever you're in that you're stuck. If you can identify stuckness, that is a place where you say, what do I want? And then who the fuck knows after that?

Tiffany (34:11.684)
Well, can also be numbness, which is even which can be incredibly difficult to locate. Like you don't even realize that you're numb because stuff is such a visceral feeling of like you're you're being pushed in or against something. Right. And numbness can be I don't feel anything. Yeah, but same. Yeah, I love that. And I would love to speak a little bit about chronic pain, too. I'm also a chronic pain therapist.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (34:14.105)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (34:19.459)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (34:23.183)
Hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (34:27.897)
Yeah. Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (34:38.019)
Yeah, please.

Tiffany (34:39.778)
And I work with neuroplastic pain and I work with the fascial adhesions and scar tissue and repetitive stress injuries. And they go really hand in hand with erotic embodiment because when you are stuck in your fascial system, it makes it much more difficult to be able to move in an easeful way. But that piece is so brilliant, you that you recognized around when I finally admit to myself what it is that I want in relationship this.

this pain will go away. Chronic pain is anything that lasts longer than three months of time. And it's something that can come and go. you're like, threw my people will say I threw my back out again, or I did this thing and it comes up every once in a while. 98 % of people who have chronic pain have neuroplastic pain. And all that means is that there is a ruminating emotional thought that is on a loop.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (35:15.535)
Mm.

Tiffany (35:37.979)
that our nervous system is constantly getting fired. no, something's wrong. no, something's wrong. no, something's wrong. And so the brain sends a pain signal to a specific area, whatever it is, it's different for every person, right? So that says you have to get out of dodge. Something is wrong and you need to pay attention. And having the ability to...

to sit with the feeling long enough to get familiar with what is that fear? What is that loop? And it can be ancient. It can be from eons ago, right? That you've been carried and it gets, it tends to get louder and louder and louder and louder. The longer we avoid it or don't know how to have, have it be held. We don't have someone who knows how to hold a container for it to investigate. Yeah. Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (36:28.846)
Bye.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (36:32.527)
Mm.

Yeah.

I think, you know, I...

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (36:44.123)
I think we all want to feel deeply held and liberated both and freedom, right? Like to really have the freedom to move. And I think of that in the way that I teach and like what I try to bring to the world in the way that I try to, yeah, just all the things. I'm like, just free yourself. And freeing yourself is work.

And it is exactly this. You're like, well, are you ready to sit with yourself? Are you ready to say, okay, what are the stories that I'm telling myself? And what are the stories I'm telling myself that are keeping me really small and being like really honest about that? And what do I really want? And is that, and why do I want it? And where can I move in with that? Or what don't I want actually?

what's current there and that finding the freedom to choose where I love the definition I heard somebody share once of an advanced yoga practice being one where you know what you can choose to do and then like you have options and you choose what you want, right? Like you could go ahead, go do that.

Tiffany (37:43.589)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (38:08.779)
handstand or don't do that handstand. Like you have the option to choose and the ability to choose and really it's like the ability. You have the ability to choose, you know what your choices are and you choose the thing that you're like, what do I need right now? Like that's like, that's the freedom, but you have to get to a point where you're like, okay, what are my options?

how am I feeling? Like there's like this embodiment piece of like connecting to self to say like, okay, how can I even step into choosing this if I'm not aware of myself? And I think of people's first stepping into their yoga practice where like, they don't know anything. You're like, God, like what is this? What is my body doing? What is this pose even called? Like how am I doing this? Like they don't even know the options yet. And then we can use that as analogy for basically everything to be like.

I don't even know yet. I don't have enough experience yet to even say like, this is a yes, this is a no. I'm like just information gathering to say like, okay, well that's actually a no, or this is a yes. And that really developing the freedom to move and freedom to choose. I think that's what you and I hope for everyone. Like go in, what do you want? And it's not, and it's simple, it's not simple.

and it's very nuanced.

Tiffany (39:27.776)
It is, and I think that really touches on the cultures that we live in, the systems that we live in. How much are you able to shed what's been put upon you, what the expectation of what it means to be a woman. There's so much to say about that, but I'm not gonna go down that rabbit hole. But...

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (39:45.294)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (39:54.161)
It's difficult too because it has so, like I said, it has so much to do with inherited shame. Like these limits that we come up against, you know, so often of like, but can I choose that? And it feels really uncomfortable to choose that. And what if I do and who's gonna say what? And am I gonna be allowed still in the rooms? Am I gonna be kicked out of the tribe, right? There's like a very visceral, usually at the end of the day, that's what it all comes down to is our survival.

And understanding the difference between healthy shame and unhealthy shame too. know, healthy shame would be, I made a mistake and there's something here that needs some sort of repair versus I am a mistake, which would be unhealthy shame. And so if there's a thread within you,

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (40:24.355)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (40:33.279)
Mmm.

Tiffany (40:54.308)
that carries this feeling somewhere that there's something wrong with me. So I'm not allowed to explore the things I want because there's something wrong about that, right? That's what you're getting like really granular about like trying to get access to this part of you that might feel like as though there was something that shouldn't be there that is.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (41:07.247)
Hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (41:24.046)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Tiffany (41:28.026)
more that we can meet all of these different aspects of who we are, the parts that we think are ugly and we can hold them in the most loving way and understand why they exist. Why do I behave that way? Why do I act out? Because I'm trying to really protect this other part of me that's feeling that still has a wound. So that's why I do that this way, right? But the more that you can

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (41:49.881)
Yeah.

Tiffany (41:54.347)
Love those parts of you and understand why they are there and you bring them out into the light. The more you go, I accept myself fully. I am allowed to have to be inside of myself fully and all this. own all this. You expand your capacity to be able to even tolerate living into every single aspect of who you are.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (42:03.373)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (42:13.07)
Hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (42:18.857)
Mm hmm. Beautifully said. Beautifully said. I think that, this truly is expanding your capacity.

All of it.

feeling it all.

Mm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (42:39.119)
Hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (42:44.006)
And again, I think going back to belonging, we do so deeply desire to belong and like that's like caretaking, like, okay, wait, but don't out me. As an author, Africa book, has her intro for her book is like, live as if you've already been canceled.

and this idea of like, we want to belong and cancel culture of like, my gosh, but like, what if like somebody says something and I'm not this and I'm not accepted and her call of like, what happens, you know, like when we live that way instead. And there's like a setting down, right? A softening of like shoulds or have tos and be like, okay, let's exhale here for a second.

Tiffany (43:07.408)
Good.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (43:33.346)
and ask different questions.

Tiffany (43:35.781)
Yeah. It's such a value system shift too, you know, I mean, when it pertains to eroticism, sensuality, expressing yourself in that way, you know, there's often a judgment of like, that's too erotic, it's slutty, you know, but what it really triggers is like, am I being too sexy or is it really that I am too alive for you? Like it makes you...

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (44:01.519)
Mm.

Tiffany (44:02.704)
comfortable because it's just showing you where you are not free with inside of your own, your own inhabiting of your sensuality, your pleasure.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (44:13.815)
Yeah. Yeah. And the confrontation that can come from like somebody looking in and being like, wait, that's too much. like, and we can even bring this to a little bit more, like bring gender into this, like a woman looking at another woman and saying, that's too much, that's too sexual. it's too alive. Like there's, there's a, gosh, like there is a different way a woman walks in the world when she is feeling herself.

And from a way of non-proving. Like, I want to bring that in. Like, you're not trying to like necessarily get eyes on you. You're just like feeling good in yourself. And those are different energies. there's a difference in that. But I love seeing a couple of, there's one person in mind, I'm not going to name this person, knowing them on social media, I've met with them in person before, but watching them go through a relationship change.

Tiffany (44:42.5)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (45:11.663)
and watching this woman over this last couple years, I'm like, there she is. You can see it in people when they become alive in themselves. And it is absolutely, of course you gotta pull in that process as well. Like get to the gym, go lift some weights, go get a pole, go move your body, go build friendships, go like...

expand your life, like go be in yourself, do the things that make us feel good and to watch her like turn on, but it's like an inside out thing.

And that is so contagious. And I think to me, when I see her and when I see other people, I'm like, this is what I want to be the example of. This is the journey I feel like, you know, and somebody reflected recently to me, they're like, there's something different. they told a story about somebody they had watched actually go through a breakup and it's like this woman and whatever. And they're like, I just saw you. And I was like, I didn't know what was happening for you, but I knew there was something. And I was like,

I will take that. Actually, I will take that because I know exactly what you're talking about. If there is a liveness that you're seeing in me, that is how I feel. And it is a different energy. And I 100 % personally want to be a part of that with other women in their lives. This is how we change the world.

Tiffany (46:41.518)
Yeah, it also makes so much sense that through the female gaze, women seeing other women, that there will be judgment. You it's part of the sister wounding. part of, it comes down from witch times, you know, where other women called out other women for being witches and they were killed because they were trying to save their own lives.

And it's a pass down narrative. It's part of the system of control of women because if we are really fully embodied and alive and in touch with our sensuality and sexuality, it's so incredibly powerful. And it's scary to the patriarchy, to the system.

Hold on. I lost that thread for a second.

Tiffany (47:34.545)
Hmm. Yeah, I'm just give myself permission to refind it here. Oh, just that, you know, it's so incredibly scary to be embodied because we are ashamed and we're cast aside all the time. If we've...

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (47:35.513)
The aliveness.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (47:40.867)
Mm-hmm. Good.

Tiffany (47:57.645)
are big, you know, if we inhabit ourselves in a really obvious way. And it's so easy to misconstrue my work. Like if you see my work on social media, it looks as though I'm just trying to get attention through these sensual videos. But really what's happening is it's a reveal. It has nothing to do with me performing. It's really a sharing of what it is that I feel. I happen to be public with it.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (48:17.999)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (48:27.29)
because that's part of my work is, and I also desire so much to break the stigma that it's wrong for women to inhabit themselves or move like this or wear certain clothing or however one wants to express themselves. And the other piece of that too is that look, a dysregulated woman is so much easier to control. If we are not

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (48:52.079)
Hmm.

Tiffany (48:54.074)
fully inhabiting ourselves and coming into regulation for ourselves, it's so much easier for us to fall in line and do the thing that everybody else wants us to do to make them comfortable, make systems continue to function.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (49:11.821)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (49:20.493)
I want to talk about a share that you gave that you, a video you posted on Instagram talking about dancing, like dancing sexy. Cause you were just speaking to this and you're like, I'm not trying to teach you to dance sexy. I'm not trying to dance sexy. I'm just trying to dance. And like, also like it can be sexy. And you know, in in yoga land there,

can be this argument for like, why are you not wearing so much clothing? Like this isn't real yoga or like a picture isn't even real yoga anyway or video or whatever it is, right? But like it's sexualizing the practice if you have less clothes on, even just like in what you wear. And I am pretty sure any of us can just be like.

naked and doing yoga without making pictures and does that sexualize or not? So if this is a picture making, make it sexual. you know, like there's questions in this, but ultimately to me, I'm like, we can, we can sit here on this podcast and be naked and that doesn't make it sexual. And also could that be thought of as sexual and could it be sexual? Yes. Right. Like I think like we can hold two things at the same time to be like, could.

make coffee and eat breakfast and be normal as humans without clothing on, right? And so bringing, think this idea of rather than just like shoving one down and saying like, you cannot do that because that is sexual. It's like, wait, but it's actually not sexual to just like have a body. And so let's soften that line between there where you're saying like, this is sexual, this is not, this is okay, this is not okay.

and say, wait a second, there's like an and in this, and can we embrace an and in the middle of that? And so even just that as like an opening place of both of these can exist and that's okay.

Tiffany (51:24.656)
Well, sexual would have to do if there's actual sex that's happening and that's not what's happening just because you're a nude or you know, you're really, really enjoying the sandwich, you know, that you're having in a way that you're making sounds or, you know, that's sensual. That's pleasure, which is different than something that's actually sexual, you know.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (51:35.214)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (51:48.132)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (51:53.847)
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (52:03.951)
The beginning of this year, I sure got my poll, but also I was, you called it out on Instagram yesterday. You've been in a post, you're like, I'm podcasting with Bonnie and she likes this. And then you put drippy eggs on there. And it's been funny because I've been thinking about my drippy eggs as I was sharing drippy eggs in my Instagram stories for gosh, a couple of years. And I recently have not been, and it hasn't like felt.

Like I'm all about drip-y eggs. I ate one this morning. I love them. I still love them. But instead what has evolved and what has come out this year is like I am dancing now in my stories all the time. And so it's like this different lens of sensuality rather than like an egg drip. I'm just dancing in my kitchen and it's not for anybody. And also it is my practice.

And so to even loop back and be like, what's the practice that you do that puts you in yourself that has you holding yourself and belonging to yourself first. And that doesn't, it doesn't touch anybody else. And I think that dance as you do, right? Like as you know, is so much of that. And so that's been also a piece for me this year.

As well as like, guess I'm dancing, like this is what I'm doing. And it feels deeply important actually to me and also important to share and like stories. It just feels like pretty chill, but also the response to of some people saying like, this is like, like there was like some people's response of, about it being sexual or really sensual or whatever. And there's probably was like, will like, sure. You can respond in these ways. I'm like, totally can acknowledge those. And also I don't really care.

because that's not the purpose of it in a way, which I feel like is very akin to what you were sharing about. I don't know you wanna share more about, like I'm not trying to have you dance sexy.

Tiffany (54:04.451)
Yeah, well, I don't teach anybody. I don't teach choreography. don't. My intention isn't to get my students to move like I do. I really just hold a space of permission for them to be able to learn what it is that feels good to their body and understand that it's totally legal to be able to move your body in any way that might feel good to you. And there is, I would say, look,

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (54:14.735)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (54:34.641)
I care so much about relationships, about intimacy. This work of erotic embodiment was something that I had in my life for a very long time before I allowed it to even move into my intimate life. I was previously terrified of intimacy. I was really frozen. And what I did was allow that

practice of my erotic embodiment to begin to inform my relationship within intimacy. It doesn't have to be that, but it can be that. And I'm so grateful that it did do that because it completely changed the landscape of my ability to be able to be in relationship and to experience pleasure, sexual pleasure. It was such a...

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (55:16.963)
Yeah.

Tiffany (55:28.419)
a beautiful entry point and there was nothing else. It was something that I had been struggling with for as long as I had been in relationships. And I never knew how I would actually change that for myself. Talk therapy wasn't going to, wasn't doing it, know, wouldn't do it. I just ultimately felt that there was something that was wrong with me, that I was broken, that maybe I'm asexual and maybe I don't care.

you know, or, and I don't want to minimize asexual people, so I don't mean that they don't care. I just meant, you know, maybe it just wasn't, it was numb or I didn't, wasn't something I really wanted. And what I discovered was once I could learn how to inhabit pleasure in my body through a regular sensual practice, that is what did open up my channel.

I started to learn about the things that were interrupting my ability to access being intimate, being seen, being vulnerable with someone else. And I also learned how to run energy, you know, in my body through the practice of expressing all of my emotions in the sensual practice, my grief, my joy, my desire, all of

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (56:41.519)
I'm going to

Tiffany (56:47.025)
So they can be so incredibly linked with one another if it's something that you desire, if that's what you want. Yeah, and thank God for it. Because it just is, you know, that practice has just been such a huge gift in my marriage. And I'm so glad to be raising children in a home that can normalize that too.

My kids are still youngish, so some of that is still gonna constantly change, but... Did you want to say something?

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (57:22.371)
Yeah.

Yeah, no, I just I'm just recalling our conversation on Sexy Sunday, where there's so much more. So even in you sharing this, if people are like, wait, there's so much there's other layers. And I feel like we were able to you shared a bit of that your background story on that podcast a couple of years ago and your journey into dance and your teachers that you've had. And I am thinking about how you danced for your husband.

and how you had him sit on a chair and you're like, I'm just gonna dance and you got in yourself first and that change and where sure, like not trying to be sexy, particularly in a certain moment and also like it feels good in me to express and like to like move my body in a way and that could be interpreted as sexual and that's totally fine with me like the yes and because it's lighting me up and my turn on in life like is gonna turn me on to

creating shit that makes a difference, that like builds communities and helps other people and serves my family. so yes, to all those things. anyway, going to thinking about you dancing for your husband and saying like, actually, like, I want to rewrite the story and this pattern in my body. And I do deeply desire to be in relationship and be able to drop into pleasure and like surrender in that and feel safe in that and feel safe in myself.

Like you're cool, but I just need to feel safe in myself. And how do I do that? And this practice of, just need to dance in me, move in me and be witnessed and to be witnessed in all of you. like this practice of being seen.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (59:13.739)
is huge. And I think that's part of why sharing in social media feels really impactful to me. Like I have exposed myself so many times to being seen that it's not so scary anymore. I can tell when I like push up against something, like, I was like, well, that's time to go do with that then. Like go be seen. Because as somebody who wants to like create things and to stand up, I'm like, it is a practice of being seen and it can, and it might not feel safe.

And so, and I would even take this as simple as, though it might not feel simple for some people, as simple as somebody making your picture. And all you have to do is stand there and you just have to get your picture made. And the discomfort that we go through to just have a picture made, just, you're, you,

Tiffany (01:00:02.544)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:00:08.375)
Like nothing special, like nothing in particular, nothing particularly hard about just like literally like, hey, like smile, take a picture. And then you're like, because you're seen and you don't have control over the camera and they're just gonna like take this picture of you and you have to just allow it. yeah, so just thinking about you with your husband and.

this embodiment of, I am going to actually allow myself to be seen. I'm gonna put myself in my body. I'm gonna let this person who I love and who I wanna connect with witness me giving myself permission, which is a vulnerable thing, right? You're like, then they know this. They know this tender part of me. They know this part of me that like just really loves this and it's not trying to prove anything to them or I'm not trying to give them anything.

Like there's no like, like if they get a watch and they like enjoy that great, but like there's nothing I'm doing, which we can take that also and think of like gender and women and doing and service and stuff. Be like, this is like giving to me. But when I, when I see women do things that lights them up like that, like there is nothing like that.

There's nothing like that.

Tiffany (01:01:30.396)
Yeah, there's two things there. One, it took a long time for me to understand that I was responsible for my own turn on, that I had to figure out what plugged me in. Now turn on can be used for anything, right? Like that medicine that I'm talking about that's moving through you. Like how do you, when you are lit up, what do you do with it? How do you use that in the world?

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:01:40.419)
Hmm.

Tiffany (01:01:57.779)
but in relationship to my intimate partnership with my husband, it took me a long time to figure out what actually did that. And that was this erotic embodiment movement, essential movement that really plugged me in and it opened me. So all those places that made me feel contracted, stuck, you know, that we were talking about earlier with chronic pain.

that movement really elicited an opening, a flow, an access to be able to feel something other than frozen or numb or frigid. And the other piece is that there's so much healing that happens in witnessing because we don't, co-regulation is how we regulate. We don't regulate by ourselves alone. It is in the witnessing and why it is so incredibly

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:02:44.783)
Yeah.

Tiffany (01:02:50.29)
necessary for women to witness other women fully inhabiting themselves in that sensual way and praising it and allowing for everybody's nervous system to go, right, we are allowed to live here. We get to be in this place. And when it comes to dancing for my husband, it's different than

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:03:05.294)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (01:03:16.86)
dancing through my emotional range, you know, like I definitely have like there have been times where I have asked him to witness me because I'm And I will say like I'm you're gonna have to wait Like I'm gonna get eventually to the part where it's both of us together But I have so much that's going on that I I need to first be able to move through my grief or anxiety or Whatever is in that space in that moment

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:03:19.727)
you

Tiffany (01:03:44.73)
and then it will transition into a very different kind of joint experience, which is different than what I'm doing with my students or if I'm doing a showcase someplace publicly, it's different.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:03:49.742)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:04:00.559)
Yeah, well, and that gets to be different. But I think even in, in your saying like, you're going to have to wait, but I need you to be over here. Like you are identifying what you need and what you want and you're asking for it. And then like expecting that, you know, you're going to be there and create this opportunity together. mean, those are, regardless of what the experience outcome is, this is why I need, this is why I want, and you're using your voice to actually say it.

Tiffany (01:04:28.634)
Yeah, and my nervous system needs to know that no one's gonna touch me until I'm ready. And I often have a lot of things to go through in my own movement until I'm like, okay, I'm ready. And that changes too. And the older I get, I'm almost 50, and the older I get, those windows become shorter and shorter too, because I just am more in myself all the time.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:04:44.206)
No.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:04:57.615)
Mmm.

Tiffany (01:04:58.322)
There's less that I have to wade through because I've done this work for a long time, you know.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:05:03.917)
Yeah, that's beautiful.

Mm.

How old are your children?

Tiffany (01:05:13.714)
14 and almost 12.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:05:16.227)
Come.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:05:19.575)
I think there, I love that, I feel like there's an expanding narrative, but then also I'm like reminded, like, I feel like it's expanding because of my circle of people, but I'm like, there's so much that is not expanding the narrative of the, like embracing that you're more than one thing. And I think it's just because my own personal life has been so much of that. And I think to,

speak about motherhood for a minute would be delightful because we have children, right? We have children and this idea of who we are or who you have to be when you're like going and being the pickup person, your carpool driver, like the hidden lies, but truly like we don't know anybody is and the hidden lives of all of us and the permission truly that

we get to be like this example to our kids to be more than one thing, which to me I feel so grateful for. I'm like if my kids get to grow up and like they're going to always reflect back on like watching me navigate so much and change and like love them and love being a mother and also have a pole in the garage.

right? And etc. Like there's so many things. That feels really important actually and really my hope is that it's a really freeing gift actually to give my kids. know to tell a different story about who they get to be if they then have had the opportunity to witness me not like you don't have to say all the things the kids kids pick up so much.

just by watching and by feeling. so for them to just be witness to watching me change and hoping, I think for me that they know that I'm going to cheer on their change and whatever it is that they're going to navigate and that all of that is wanted and celebrated.

Tiffany (01:07:36.252)
I think a lot of that is timing too, because when they're young, they can't think of you any differently than your mom, know, and mom, and either they're getting what they want from mom, or they're not getting what they want from mom or dad, you know, I hope long term, you know, as they continue to, you know, grow into themselves and get curious about what it is that they, you know,

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:07:50.734)
Yeah.

Tiffany (01:08:02.833)
want to do with their time, their energy, their desire in life that they'll be able to look at both my husband and I and go, there's different possibilities, where both of us are not the norm, I guess you would say, whatever that means.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:08:20.021)
Yeah, yeah. How do you talk to your kids about sensuality and about what you do?

Tiffany (01:08:29.617)
Yeah, it happens in stages for sure because they, you know, we talked about sex very early on with them and we talked about sensuality early on, but they forget those conversations and then as they continue to age and they'll have a question here, they're just both starting to...

experience hormonal changes and different desires and so they're asking questions that we've talked about before, know, but they don't, it didn't register in the same way because they just weren't in the same place. So look, it's very difficult to talk about sensuality and have it be understood even by adults and

I talk about it with my kids and we talk about the difference between sensuality, sexuality, the difference between erotic embodiment and being a paid stripper. And I don't know, I don't know if they have a full understanding of it. I think after having lots of years of discussing it, they know, mom helps people feel good in their body.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:09:47.545)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (01:09:47.57)
You know, like she dances with them and she helps them with chronic pain. I think there's a part of both of them that still resists the idea of thinking that I'm an erotic person, which is fair. you know, my husband is an incredible artist and he just finished this really amazing painting. It's like a series that he's doing all on

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:10:03.919)
Mm.

Tiffany (01:10:16.241)
female empowerment and kind of like fuck the patriarchy. And I'm in a lot of them or will be and it's me new basically riding this rhino and it's like five feet, you know, tall, it's huge. It's stampeding over men in suits and it's in our living room. And my daughter was like, you're not gonna put that in the living room.

my friends are coming over and they're gonna think we have pornography on the wall. And we were like, okay, let's talk about pornography. And we've talked about pornography for years too, you know, which again, I'll delineate that sexual, not sensual, but because they're so intertwined and it can be so incredibly confusing, we talk about all of it. And I love talking about it so much and constantly like, you know, normalizing that it's okay to

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:10:47.725)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:10:55.011)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:11:07.449)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (01:11:12.167)
be in your skin and as long as it is safe and pleasurable to you and it's not harmful to anyone else, we are good. That's the lane that we stay in. And we talk a lot about regulating their own nervous systems through pleasure practices, whether that's a breath work, whether that's like a self-touch, like a thing that can help

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:11:26.894)
Yeah.

Tiffany (01:11:42.328)
you know, regulate your nervous system. There's all different kinds of ways to be able to do that, moving your body, dropping into the present moment. So we talk a lot about that kind of stuff, but just like you said, you know, kids learn, they're a sponge and they learn so much by witnessing so much more than anything that I've ever said, because they're annoyed by what I'm saying most of the time, because they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, it's not quite online for them. Yeah. And I think some

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:11:51.343)
Mm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:12:10.392)
Yeah.

Tiffany (01:12:11.707)
It also just has to do with who each of them are as an individual, you know.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:12:14.745)
Total.

Totally, I get that. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely have artwork up in my house where there's like, there's definitely boobs. Like there's definitely like topless paintings or whatnot and stuff. So yeah, the conversation.

of all of that with kids is prevalent for sure. And like what is or is not or okay or what does okay mean or what is pornography and what is artistry and what is like being in your skin. I like your definition of like, I want it, it feels good, it's not harming other people. It's like, this is a good space for these things. I think the, like our kids,

Growing up in a culture where there's so many things said about bodies, about what you can or cannot do or should or should not do, and friends and media, all the things. And it is very specific, I think, though, to the ways that each of them show up in the world. So if you have more than one kid, it's like, it feels very apparent. You're like,

This is how you process is how you process like, yeah.

Tiffany (01:13:40.659)
So different. Yeah. Yeah. When I talked to you about masturbation, they were like, ew, no way. And another one is like, okay. That sounds interesting. Yeah. So

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:13:43.556)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:13:52.505)
yeah. yeah. Well, and I think it's always like answering the question as much as like, as simple, I've thought, you know, for so many years, I'm like, I'm going to answer it as simply as like small amount as I need. And then when they ask more, because I know I've heard of some people where they're like, they want to know this. And then they like go full blast and the kids were like, well, I was actually not asking that.

So you're like, okay, what are you really asking? Like, do you really want to know this or that or whatever? And the conversations I've had with my kids are so honest. And I know that like one of my kids, it's like, mom, is this weird that we're talking about this? I was like, no. So I had, he's like, other kids aren't talking to the parents. I was like, well, if they aren't, they wish that they were. And you will be glad that

you can have this conversation with me. Like if you jump ahead like 10 years, you're going to be like, wow, mom was really cool. That's what I tell them. That's the words I say. So I'm like, this is real. Like this, you're going to be glad that this is, this is our situation and where we can meet and the openness of it. if it, and I think there's a line, there's like a soft place in there to be like, I don't have to be deeply revealing about myself. but to still

be available to have conversations to share around topics. And so that there's enough conversation around what is embodiment, what is eroticism, what is sensuality or sexuality so that they even know that it's safe to come to me. That like they're not gonna be judged for having like a conversation around like a situation with somebody they're with.

or their own sensuality, their own pleasure talking about masturbation. Like I've definitely been in the car, gosh, just like a second ago where a car is a great place to talk to kids because nobody's making eye contact. And it just like happens sometimes because kids bring it up at like random times. And where there was a conversation about masturbation that came up and then somebody was like talking about it. I was like, well, I masturbate. And then I was like, who else masturbates? And everybody in the car were like, yep. We're like, okay, cool.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:16:07.287)
Like, and it was just chill. And then we're like, okay, so we're going to go pick up some groceries over here. Okay, cool. Like it just like, it flows with it rather than trying to make it a thing, or we're going to have this conversation later to just lean into it in the moment. And this actually makes it chill. makes it be like, this is part of normal life, which is what I want. Like let's have sex and sensuality and eroticism. And what does it mean to like be in yourself? What does it mean to like have that like just as normal life that feels so like,

like more honest, I think in a way.

Tiffany (01:16:42.9)
Yeah, I was so determined to change the narrative from the way that I grew up with my kids. I didn't want them to be afraid of their bodies. I didn't want them to be afraid of their want of exploration of, know, and it didn't come, you know, the way that I was raised, obviously everyone is doing, they were all doing their best. My parents were doing their best for sure. But I was mainly raised by my mom and lived with my grandparents. My grandparents were

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:16:51.149)
Yeah.

Tiffany (01:17:11.678)
quite lived a very long life. My grandma's 105 when she died and both my mother and my grandmother rode this line of like equality with men. And I think that generation very often limited a woman's access to her fullness because they were so busy trying to get on equal footing.

It's such an ultimately a disservice because we're just not equal. We're different. We are different and I'm so glad we're different It doesn't mean that we're not capable of so many of the similar similar things but hormonally we are different a man's Hormone system works 12 hours on 12 hours down a woman is different every single day every hour of the day We are running so different from from that

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:17:55.364)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (01:18:09.204)
And so we would embody ourselves. if we, they blocked themselves from being able to actually inhabit themselves fully, which then siphoned off access to this sensual pleasure. And because of that, I just absorbed this feeling of having to, everything needs to be in control and in line and you can't be.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:18:12.185)
Yeah.

Tiffany (01:18:33.67)
sensual because then you're not taken seriously, then you're not going to be, you know, it's not going to be equal. Like it's harming the feminist movement, you know, if you are to lean into this, to this other aspect. And it doesn't mean that every woman is meant to do my kind of practice that I love so much. That's not, to me, femininity or to be feminine is to allow yourself to be any and all aspects of whatever that might be for you. This just happens to be

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:18:37.679)
Hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:18:44.686)
Hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:19:01.849)
total.

Tiffany (01:19:02.638)
one of the ways that it feels delicious and absolutely in alignment with who I am. And I just so wanted my kids to be able to understand that feeling good in their body was a birthright. It's not a privilege. It's actually like you are born, like your senses are what allow you to understand what is good in the world.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:19:08.697)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:19:32.227)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (01:19:32.252)
Right? Like my mother's milk and something that's a little bit sweet, like that's something that nourishes me. Being held nourishes me. That hot stove hurts me. Right? Like we learn all of our survival skills through our senses and not taking off the table our sexual pleasure, you know, either. And that how it's so, it's just such.

a beautiful part of what it means to be inside of a body.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:20:04.697)
and

I love the way that you are rewriting what your generational story was.

Tiffany (01:20:22.162)
I hope so. And look, who knows? I know it's different, but who knows how my kids will come back years later and see what it is for them. They might've felt like I was too eager to say a lot of things. Yeah, but I do think also, like inside of myself, I get incredibly excited whenever they come and ask me a question. And I don't think I am...

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:20:28.547)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:20:34.799)
And, you know, get that.

Tiffany (01:20:45.62)
fooling myself into thinking that I'm playing it cool. I think I am. I think when they ask me, I just answer mostly from a science perspective. They both have come to me and asked, why is my body doing this thing? And I'm like, oh, that's just physiological. This is what happens. When something makes you feel excited or feel good, your body responds on its own. That has to do with your nervous system. It's available to you.

And then we start talking about like some of the other aspects if they're curious. But yeah, I mean, I'm so curious and hopeful that their intimate relationships will be light years different than what I struggled with for such a long time.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:21:31.681)
Yeah, it really will be. I can second that. I'm not as safe for my intimate relationship, but just like this curiosity of how my kids will loop back. yeah, was I too eager? Was I? And I'm just like, I don't know. Like, I can't not be this person. So I'm just going to try to play it like cool. I'm not going to try to blast them, but like also, like, I can't not be this. So welcome.

Tiffany (01:22:00.306)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:22:03.544)
gosh, they're like so great. They're so great. They're such mirrors, truly.

Tiffany (01:22:10.514)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:22:14.627)
Yeah, and it is a different, mean, our kids are in their, you know, we're in double digit land for its kids. So when kids are smaller, it is a different experience and motherhood is a different experience and hard, hard. It's like deeply consuming in other ways when kids are really little and need you, like just truly need you, like in a more physical and survival way.

It changes immensely and you're in that now and getting the taste of it. think my kids going through high school and all the things I'm like, it like parenting turns into, it is emotional relationships. Like that's really what it more and more becomes. I'm thinking of our relationships with our family members. Like, do we need them to feed us to like, no, we're like, we sit there and we're like,

trying to meet each other, right? And whether it's family, friends, whatever. And it feels very much like that with my kids, that the relationship changes and my being a parent is then an emotional thing. So it's, yeah, I think it's, that's cool. And I know I resisted, I think for a moment, with my little kids, I was like, okay, we're doing it. And then I was like, oh my gosh, like my mom and...

And I even remember when I was leaning into business things, I'm like, I don't want to just work with moms. Which I can say and like laugh tenderly about in that way, because I think I so desperately wanted to identify myself as more than a mother. And to then have this journey of self where it wasn't force, where I just kind of was like,

Tiffany (01:23:46.897)
you

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:24:04.919)
I'm here and to like now be so like in love with my motherhood side and love that part of me and what it has brought to me, what I'm able to give to it and how it has like it affects like it changes everywhere how I show up. So it has been my own journey of like fully embracing and be like, fuck yes, I'm a mom. And.

Tiffany (01:24:11.54)
Turn.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:24:34.815)
XYZ. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (01:24:36.476)
Yeah, I mean, there's so much that I could say around motherhood and art.

It was really, really, really hard for about 13 years and we're in like the best pocket we've ever been in and it's so exciting. And it's the biggest, I mean, I don't think that motherhood has to be the most important thing for every single mother or like the main thing that they, you know, that they feel that they do. I just so happened.

to be someone, I remember being four years old and sitting in a field and I was having a conversation with myself of I know that motherhood is gonna be the most important role that I'm ever going to play. And I love my work. Like I am obsessed with my, I love it so much. But I knew that that role was gonna just be the most significant thing that I would ever do. And...

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:25:27.343)
you

Tiffany (01:25:39.143)
I was trying to notes early on and what I knew was not working in my own household. And was like, I kept saying to myself, remember this feeling, remember how you feel when they do this. Remember, you know, now whether or not I was able to hold onto that, it's whole other thing when I became a parent, because it's the hardest job, it has been for me, the hardest job on the planet. I have never mined myself more.

than for my children. And I am so on my knees grateful for who they each are and how they have elicited different aspects of my healing, you know, because wherever I was wounded in my own youth, it just came out onto them, you know, and they have given me the grace.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:26:26.592)
and

Tiffany (01:26:36.798)
to continue to be able to learn. And I think the biggest thing that I ever learned as a mom and as somebody in a relationship was just repair. It's never about being perfect, because that just doesn't even exist. It's just that when I do have a rupture, how do I go in and repair? And that makes all of the difference in the world.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:27:01.767)
Yeah. I love listening to you. My brain is like, yep, yep, yep, yep. I like, can see it's several different stories, which maybe is what is happening for you too. I'm like, yep, yep, yep. I would like us to have one more. I'm gonna give us one more talking point. And before we wrap this, I think in...

this desire I have to.

have this really be an important conversation of erotic embodiment of belonging to yourself before you belong to anyone. And in my desire to work with people who are stepping into leadership, think that working with teachers like I do and telling them, like, just so you know, like going to teacher training is a public speaking experience. And I don't feel like that's really spoken to so directly.

is an experience where you have to be seen and how does it feel being seen? And to have these conversations, these kinds of conversations feels like it's something that needs to be brought to the table to me like that. like, this is what I'd like to bring to the yoga space is like, let's have these conversations. Like how can we practice being seen? How can you practice regulating your nervous system and like being in yourself and holding that or releasing that, whatever that might

might be right so that you can stand up in front of the room so you can actually share your literal voice, give directions, be watched and become a leader in community like the way that you kind of dream of where people are feeling lit up and want to step into that role. And they're like, I'm ready, I'm ready to do the thing. And then it hits them and they're like, my gosh, I'm terrified. Or I can't even get in front of the room or

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:28:52.097)
I don't have a voice and how do I even step into this? And there's so much fear and so much in the way. And I think this conversation then of how to step into yourself in this personal practice sort of way, think I would love for you to share, especially for your thoughts on this, like this can be general thoughts on this, and then we can step into like maybe some practices.

Tiffany (01:29:21.724)
I love this question. You know, the first thing that I would say is slow the fuck down.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:29:30.159)
Mmm.

Tiffany (01:29:32.532)
I mean, you're talking about all nervous system stuff. So the things that are getting in the way of feeling like you can be a leader vocally, physically, you know, that when you are able to meet the slowest part of your nervous system with tenderness, that is what begins to root you into relationship with

earth with where you come from, as in earth and nature, your interconnectedness to your entire environment, you know, it roots you into your embodied knowing. And I mean, I can never say it too often in my own classes, because my classes are about

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:30:11.193)
Yeah.

Tiffany (01:30:29.78)
supporting women, embodying themselves fully, being the leader in their own lives, to whatever capacity that is going to look. it's always about doing less. Like, how do you do so much less?

and still be okay and get the minutia of the moment. Like there's a marrow in every single moment. And if you can allow yourself to slow down enough to meet that like most tender, the slowest part of your nervous system, you'll be able to oscillate. You'll be able to move between these points of like when you need, like when you're teaching, you're on, you know, you can be really on and vibrant and moving and not catatonic because sometimes that will sound like meet the slowest part of yourself is.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:30:50.414)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (01:31:17.876)
catatonic, it's not, it's really nourishment. It's just like how allowing yourself to really nourish yourself, to have a full cup to draw from. And the slower you are, the more grounded you are, you're speaking and moving teaching a place of honesty. So much of my, like I would say majority of the time when I'm teaching or holding women's circles or whatever it is, it's really a somatic.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:31:24.345)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:31:35.054)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (01:31:45.717)
co-regulated practice that we start with, which is just noticing like, my God, where am I inside of myself right now? Okay, can I name the fact that my hands feel cold and clammy? And I know that my heart is beating faster or it's like, feels like it's coming out of my chest. I notice that my shoulders are a little tense or I'm holding my abdomen in, you know, can...

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:31:58.031)
Hmm.

Tiffany (01:32:12.164)
What is the invitation here? Is there an invitation to let go of my belly? And how does that feel if I let that go? How do I bring myself like come in? It almost feels like pixelated until it like to me to like settle and you come in to your own skin and then you teach from you.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:32:20.675)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:32:27.64)
Hmm.

Tiffany (01:32:35.794)
and you're letting go of the metote, the voices of like all of the teachers, all of the notes that you're trying to hit, all, know, whatever it is that you're leading that group in, it's like you can let those things go because it's already moving. That is the medicine that's moving through you. You already have it. And it will be so much more unexpected and delicious and channeled when you're in that space.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:33:00.078)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:33:11.97)
I love this.

I, the phrase that I have been using in flow school for a long time when I work with teachers is to do less better.

And.

the way that we think we have to give everything and then it will be worth it and what we offer is worth it and we are worth it and we can layer that on being a parent and on all the things but simplifying down what we give, repeating it.

letting people actually have the experience where they're not trying to think about all the things, but they're actually just trying to feel the things. It changes what you have to hold as a leader. And then it changes like the student's experience, because you can drop into it more because you're trying not to remember a billion things anymore. And because of the way that I lead is a different sequencing sort of methods for people.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:34:19.231)
but I love that that is part of what you have said and to meet the slowest part of your nervous system. Like that's beautiful and welcoming. And I think that the more that I am exposed to people and to practices and to different ways of thought, different self-exploration tools, the more that

I think all of us are gifting each other the experience of unshaming ourselves.

and giving ourselves permission to truly just arrive and say, there's actually something in me. We can't always see the gifts that we arrive with, and we don't think it's anything in particular. it's also why all of our voices are important is because there is actually something different that we each are bringing to the room, even if we don't know how to identify it.

Tiffany (01:35:18.473)
Yeah, I would also include in that that being a leader in those spaces often has a lot less to do with what you cognitively know and more about how you feel. What field when you walk in, it's so much more about how you are being than what it is that you're actually saying. There's so much that's transferred. And again, that's the intelligence of the nervous system.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:35:26.991)
the

Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:35:33.389)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tiffany (01:35:43.221)
that when someone walks into the room, go, this room, I don't know why, but this person feels like a good space for me to be in. And so they become receptive to whatever is moving through you that you might not even, again, like, yeah, you said, you might not realize what that is, yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:35:50.36)
Absolutely.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:35:59.299)
Yeah. But, but even to have that be part of the conversation to be like, remember people can feel you and that in our holding of space. And I think if we're speaking specifically to women as well, that like there's a femininity that we can stand in and lead from, but there's also this container holding of having a space where people feel safe enough to drop into or we're slow enough that they don't have to rush to be there. Cause then like, we're going to sit here.

But to have that remembrance that people can feel you and feel your energy in the way that I mean this conversation can go much longer to be like how do you hold space in a way that allows people to actually drop into safety and to actually be able to open up and like with like we're doing this in different settings and also it's similar work of like people giving themselves permission to move their bodies to make noises to

Tiffany (01:36:34.645)
Thank

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:36:55.885)
Like do something that they're not doing in like the other parts of their day and that your skill and craft and attention awareness of yourself and of what you are creating is deeply impactful. So I so agree. Like what we have to teach is like a small piece of it and who we are and how we hold the room is a big piece of that. Yeah.

Tiffany (01:37:18.949)
Yeah, yeah, I have so many first time students clients who will come in and sit down in my space and you know, we do a little intro and you know, I just ask about what's there and what's in their heart at the moment and they will start to cry and they're like, I don't why am I crying and I'm I said it's because that's what happens in the space. Like that's because the invitation to drop in to the truth of what's lying there waiting to be discovered.

is ready, know, it just felt like it felt safe enough to be able to do that.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:37:50.511)
Yeah. Yeah. What a gift. I'm so glad that you are in the world and sharing like you are and showing up like you are. And I, yeah, and that we could have this conversation. And I hope that anybody who listens to this conversation, who is curious, because you offer things online and in person. So I'm in Portland, you are not in Portland.

Tiffany (01:38:02.965)
Thank you.

Tiffany (01:38:19.411)
I'm in North Carolina.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:38:20.623)
Yeah, so like you don't have to be in person to have the benefit of being in your presence and having your leadership and guidance into erotic embodiment. So I hope this also gives people a pain to come and find you and your work. Is there anything you want to share in particular about your work and invitation there?

Tiffany (01:38:40.885)
I would just say if you are curious, can find me at DanceBrave.com and you can find me on my socials and all of that too. And like you said, I teach both privately and I teach classes as well, both virtually and in person and retreats here and there and workshops here and there and all of that. Yeah. But I can't wait to meet you if you want to be in the space with me.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:39:04.717)
Okay.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:39:08.558)
my gosh, yes. I'm like me.

Tiffany (01:39:10.485)
Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:39:14.191)
You

Okay, this is wonderful. honestly, I'm like, okay, you and I are gonna keep talking and we'll probably loop back on here again. That's what the feeling is. This is, again, I'm dropping into having guests back onto the podcast after a good chunk of time.

So this feels like the right, you're the right person in this new iteration of like, okay, it's time. It's time to be talking. It's time to be sharing different stories and different ways of being, especially in my own place in life. And thank you for being part of that. It feels really nourishing.

Tiffany (01:39:53.353)
Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you for allowing me the space. Yeah.

Bonnie Weeks (she/her) (01:39:58.511)
Yeah. Okay, loves. Thank you for listening today. All the notes, like find the show notes, go and follow Tiffany. Like do the things, say hello, embody yourself, slow the fuck down, right? And I think one of my phrases for a long time has been there is no rush.

I think we can shame ourselves into thinking that we have to be at a certain place at a certain time and, no, I'm stuck, I'm this, I'm not that, I'm not that, am I even worth it yet? But Tiffany's here nodding her head, like there is no rush. Like we're right on time.

Okay, sending you all love. Have a lovely day.