261 - The Play Experiment w/Grey Tanner

I've named 2025 as my Year of Play and I'm inviting y'all to join me!

I'm so excited to share today about The Play Experiment, a month-long experience that's all about building a life where play is part of the everyday. I'm joined by my friend and collaborator, Grey Tanner--a soul and somatic embodiment artist, teacher, and mentor (and queen of play!)--who I've invited to co-host with me.

Today we share about how play has come to be a vital aspect of our lives, supporting our creativity, relationships, businesses, and whole-ass selves. We explore some of what play means for us, how that's expanded and evolved through time and practice, some of the ways ways cultural conditioning and our personal stories impact our ability to play, and how so much of our play has been about giving ourselves permission.

We explore how play can be integrated into adult life, help us to discover and embody our authenticity and purpose, and how The Play Experiment is an invitation for all of it. 

Learn more about the Play Experiment and sign up here
Connect with Grey on Instagram 

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Listen to Bonnie's other podcast Sexy Sunday HERE

The music for this episode is Threads by The Light Meeting.
Produced by: Grey Tanner

Transcript

Bonnie (00:04.906)
Welcome to the podcast, my loves. I am giddy as fuck about this conversation. because this really is the launch and I have been saying it here for a long time, for like the past months and alluding to this year of play for 2025.

And today this is all about play and specifically play with Gray, my friend Gray, who I'm here with, who is co-hosting the play experiment with me. And I am excited for this conversation today where, you know, I think as maybe somebody Gray hasn't been on the podcast before, I invited her to be part of my retreat that I hosted three months ago. And I have been working in

behind the scenes with Grey and Grey has been supporting me and encouraging me to play in so many ways. And so then to bring her along with this is so exciting to me. I'm excited to introduce you to her, to have you hear her wisdom and her voice and the way that she shows up in the world. And then of course, to use this as a stepping grounds to invite you into the January play experiment where we are going to have a daily play prompt and step into the year playing because

This is apparently what I do. I'm like, well, it's my year of play and I'm going to invite you all to play. This is like my MO. If I have something I'm stoked on, I invite everybody else to do it with me. It's great. You if you want to get nerdy about human design, that's like totally in line with how I show up in the world. And I'm, you know, I'm really okay with it because it's really fun. So welcome, Gray. Thank you for being here. Thanks for making space to, to play with me this morning as we record this.

Grey (01:54.606)
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here and to talk about this. It's going to be amazing.

Bonnie (02:02.062)
Great. I love that you landed my life. This is the power of Instagram, so I love that we're going to take this online. But you found me on social media through a friend, through a mutual friend. And then you were like, hey, let's go for a tea date. And I'm like, yes. And then we're like, that was great. And now here we are, like, what, two years, two and a half years later.

Grey (02:24.406)
Yeah, I feel like it's been a few years now. And I was reflecting recently on our trajectory and how I feel like so much of it has been really intuitively led, so much has unfolded in our dynamic and our relationships. And it really has been this theme of play with us that's been really beautiful. And yeah, here we are. Couldn't have seen it coming.

Bonnie (02:27.726)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (02:49.932)
Yeah. Yeah.

No, and I think that you're exactly right. think wherever there's ease and with all the things that all of us can navigate and say like, okay, how am I holding this in my life and how am I meeting this in my life where I followed the ease and that doesn't mean that there's not work, right? We know that like it takes time to make time for friends or to like travel and to do things and to show up. But also if there's not an element of ease within the work, like we're not going to stick with it. And that's also not.

play.

Grey (03:25.194)
Exactly. And I think there's so much too about an excitement. A lot of what I feel has been characterizing my working relationship with you and our friendship has been so much creative activation and inspiration and all these kinds of things where I felt like really I responded my manifesting generator vibes to come back to human design. I responded to something you'd put out into the field to invite someone in to help you.

Bonnie (03:30.862)
Thank

Grey (03:50.99)
with your business and your work. And that was something that I was really turned on by you and your energy and what you're doing in the world and all of the things. And I took the opportunity to reach out and to put myself forward for that. And so I just love this beautiful energy. And I also wanted to just speak really quickly to your part about inviting people in when you're really stoked on something and that being such manifesting energy.

Bonnie (03:51.842)
Mm-hmm.

Grey (04:17.922)
And that's so much my way too, where I've been moving my whole life this way, where when I go and I discover things that are supportive to me or that really activate me or whatever, I'm always wanting to tell everyone about it and proselytizing all of the good things. so joining this play experiment is perfect because play has been such a big part of my life and something that I love sharing with people and talking about. so we're in the manifesting.

like energy and really stoked for 2025.

Bonnie (04:49.4)
Yeah.

Yes. Well, and to go human design, let's like keep going there for a second. And I feel like there should just be a human, maybe there needs to be a human design prompt for this January, you know, experiment.

Grey (05:02.124)
I was actually thinking about that. was thinking about that. Yeah, because it's been such a beautiful, powerful tool for me of empowerment and self-discovery and permission giving, really. Yeah.

Bonnie (05:14.466)
Yeah, yeah, it really is permission giving. One, I love that in your design where it talks about taste and like your taste of things, like there's a food kind of experience, but also how the taste of things that are non-food have been supportive for your life and enriched it. And then your ability to share those things and how impactful it is for others to then be able to have your recommendation be like, hey, here's the things y'all, like.

Like I'm here, I'm ready to share the things. I have been some places and that you come with such an amazing skillset where, mean, honestly, just, to me, regardless of what you're wearing at any time, you are like the shaman walking into the forest wearing the fur coat. you cannot, which anybody who's listening to this, like this is literally what, like this is what you do. But also, I mean, in the way that you even,

Grey (05:59.81)
Hahaha!

Grey (06:05.569)
actually happen.

Bonnie (06:12.782)
is playful. I mean, you have a shaved head at the current moment, but when I met you, you had a Mohawk and anybody who ever has a Mohawk, I'm like, you're my friend now. Like there's so many people that I just, I would just adopt you if you're my friend. And like, it's, how it goes. And I didn't know that about myself until I've started to see that repeating pattern. So people who have had Mohawks that are now my friends, cause that's what I do.

but that there's an element to play and boldness in how you show up. it's so, I think confidence is attractive. I think a lot of like, I think that's a lot for all of us to be like, there's somebody doing a thing and they love it and they're owning it and they're letting it be a little ripply in the world. And it's having an impact that then they have to hold a response to and there's a boldness in that. And...

And that can be really scary. And I think that's part of why this play experiment is going to be really fun because we're trying, I like what we've created is trying to give people that opportunity to tap into being bolder in what they define as play and to kind of recognize it as that and to say like, but you know, what if I allow myself to take up a little bit more space? What if I allow myself to say, yeah, like why not me?

And like, am enough. I like, I am worth it to actually to like tap into this moment and to be a little brave and be a little bit curious and that it is maybe going to make other people like say things or feel things or you might say things or feel things about yourself. But I think the, what we've created is a representation too of how like we have met in play. think you're absolutely right in that. And then also how both of us

Grey (07:50.638)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (08:03.318)
are able to compliment each other or like listen and learn from each other in our own personal experiences with the world. And the way that we show up in our one-on-one coaching, in our mentorship of groups and working with other individuals to say like, what actually is really helpful for helping people live an audacious life where they own the hell out of their voice and where they really have that ingrained like...

I'm not even ingrained, but like a practice of paying attention, which is, you know, how I define yoga, which really, I think that's what this is. It's like, how are we paying attention? Like, are we awake? Because if anything, I think that this year that has been life and death, a birth and death for me, and then having my mom die in specific a couple months ago, like unexpectedly, then...

We don't know how much time we have. We don't know what's around the corner for each of us or for the people we love. And so if not now, like when?

Grey (09:12.15)
Absolutely. I love how you're speaking about this, this audacity and the ways that like all these little ways that we can give ourselves permission and the ripple effects of that and, and some of that like being able to hold ourselves in all of it. And I do think that we live in a time in a place where play is kind of radical and disruptive in a lot of ways, especially in some of the more

childlike play that we explore and that we encourage people to explore and that owning a voice. And it's all beautiful and necessary for us to find our centers and to be able to hold ourselves and it is also a practice, you know. And I feel similarly that yoga is a practice of paying attention and of course it's a whole spirituality and it's a philosophy of life. It's not just about what we do on a mat.

Bonnie (09:56.706)
Yeah.

Grey (10:06.19)
And so it is so much bringing this, infusing the spirit of mindfulness and attentiveness to ourselves and our experiences to so many aspects of our lives. And I think the play is a way that what I've learned is that play is a way that we get to come home to ourselves and because it brings us into our bodies and into our sensory experiences and all of that, that we actually have an opportunity to.

Bonnie (10:18.498)
Yeah, yeah.

Grey (10:33.122)
to touch and to remember how we actually feel about things and what we think and what we want beyond what we have been told to be and all of these ways that we've made ourselves small in our lives. And so, yeah, this time, it's so big and tumultuous for so many of us. Like, you've been through so much this year. I've been through so much this year, all the light, the shadow, and we're going through so much collectively.

And all of this feels so, important for us to be doing.

Bonnie (11:04.266)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Truly.

you

Grey (11:10.254)
And I also love to, as you're speaking about death, you know, something that I've been reflecting on recently too is how I think there's a kind of closeness to death and to our pain and to our grief and things like that, to our shadows, some of these more challenging aspects of life that we have this, we have this tendency that makes a lot of sense to just push it away, to not want to be close to it.

But what I've found is actually the intimacy with all of that is what allows us to be more alive to our lives. It's throwing into sharp relief through death and through loss and through all of these things, like what are our values? What's important to us? Who the fuck am I? What am I here to do? And so we need these kind of reminders and this closeness in our lives so that we can actually come more into ourselves and our lives. And you're experiencing that in real time.

Bonnie (11:44.109)
Yeah.

Bonnie (11:54.307)
Yeah.

Bonnie (12:03.692)
Yeah, totally. Well, and I really love that as a point too, because I think it might be easy to interpret like, you're doing the play experiment. This is all going to like, we're just over here giggling, which is not wrong. And right. But it's not, it's not, we're not trying to like, this is real life.

Grey (12:20.59)
This is not a love and light,

Bonnie (12:31.366)
And we can be going through things that are deeply disruptive to us in this current moment. You could be in like major transformation and transition in your life and navigating a lot of change. And we're stepping into this new year and new politics and new like there's a lot of things that might be taking place. And we get to be more than one thing. And we get to experience more than one thing at a time. And where if we

are only stuck in one mode, it doesn't feel like a rich life. Like we value our life because of the variety. And so I think the play experiment then is like this invitation to be like, okay, so those things are real and like, how do we keep growing even in those things? So we're not stuck.

Grey (13:09.23)
And when you balance, you need it all.

Bonnie (13:25.55)
So we don't feel like we're like, I'm like where we feel like you're, you know, when we're in our own way, it's like, okay, wait, let's play a little bit. And that's so much my work with yoga teachers within flow school is like, okay, let's stop trying to feel like we have to put ourselves in a box and we have to prove our value as a teacher in this way, or like show up in this particular way and actually set all of that down. And now let's just show up to the mat. And now I just want you to play and helping teachers find themselves as a teacher through

the access point of their own play. And that's truly, that's how I've shown up. That's how I do it. And like that, no, that's how you do it for your own creations. But like, I think that's what this is. And we get to be more than one thing at once.

Grey (14:10.766)
Absolutely, I think so much of our creativity awakens through play, know, and especially that embodied play as you're talking about like being in ourselves and feeling those experiences and so much of what our potential is can be found through these experiences where we are present and we are in flow and all of that. And so yeah, it makes perfect sense.

Bonnie (14:17.09)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (14:36.728)
Yeah. Okay. I have a question for you. I'm thinking about, you know, I think this word play and to define play for people and also PS, we're just going to put this out there. If you're like, okay, I get it. I'm going to do the play experiment to like go to, go to the show notes. There's a link in there. You can go sign up for it and then like come back and keep listening. Just do it right now. So you don't forget. That's fine. It's $120 and you can do one payment or three payments. Make it easy.

Grey (14:39.619)
Yeah.

Bonnie (15:06.432)
Right. Make it easy. so go, you can do that. So you can read the website and you're like, great. Got it. but like, I think the definition of play then is interesting. And I'm thinking about my youngest kiddo who is an eighth grader. he's 13. And the other day I was like, okay, let's like no screens for a second, like find something to do or to make and you know, play with something, like do something. And he.

Grey (15:12.53)
But, like, the definition of play, then, is interesting.

Bonnie (15:36.43)
wanted to pull out the Play-Doh and he was like, I kind of just want to like use the Play-Doh. And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, but am I like too old for this? And he had this moment where it was just him and I talking and he's like eighth grader, you know, he's a football player, he's doing lacrosse, but he's like a big heart and just like showing up with people. And really he just wanted to like, he's like, I think it's just kind of fun. And I was like, yeah, I was like, this is not.

a little kid thing, or he's just like, this, am I too old for this? And I had this conversation where I was like, isn't this the exact same as his older sibling who is making clay sculptures that are like this incredible, you know, body forms who like that kid is like 17. And I was like, this just doesn't harden. So now you're just like practicing like non-attachment to your creations.

But like it's the same but where we put a label on who can play and what you can play with and what counts as play and if your age means that you can or cannot do something which I remember even like probably being about his same age and I closed my door and I had a Barbie house that was sliding underneath my bed that my dad made.

that the walls would come up basically to like the halfway of the Barbies. And there's like little doors that you would have to like put the Barbie through head first, you know, go through. There's no walking through those doors. And I would pull it out and like arrange it, had all these little rooms in it. And I remember I was playing Barbies probably about the same age, eighth grader-ish. And I remember my brother, I'm outing him now, my younger brother right younger than me, he knocked on the door. He's like, Bonnie, what are you doing? And I was like, I'm playing Barbies. And he was like,

Well, I'll play with you if you don't tell anyone. And I was like, okay. And he came in and we played Barbies. I he would have been a grade younger than me. And so, and that's like, I really don't remember playing Barbies after that time. You know, I think it was one of those things where it was like, am I too old to play Barbies? Am I too old to play make believe? And so I think that is an interesting place to step off because we so often think of play as something we do as a child.

Bonnie (17:46.506)
and where we're told like, out and play and parents like, go play or kids knocking on the door, be like, hey, can you come play? And that that word is really like, feels like originating so much within a child experience. So that like, Gray, I'm wondering if you can think of like, if you have some examples of that maybe from your own life of like, like this Barbie experience for me and also with my kiddo talking about Play-Doh of like,

where you had that question, am I too old to do this? Or is this okay for me to play in this way? Did you ever have that when you were growing up?

Grey (18:24.492)
I certainly did. I'm having a hard time thinking about specific instances of activities, but I did become what therapists and psychologists now call a parentified child from a young age, where I felt like I was forced to grow up young through circumstances and life things. And so I remember very distinctly through middle school.

especially starting to really feel like I had to leave a lot of childhood behind. didn't, when I didn't have as much time in my days and stuff to play because I was like helping out my mom who was running a daycare out of her house and like taking care of other children. And when I was a child myself and all of these kinds of things. And, and so it just like through all these little micro moments, the play started to get shut down in me and I was, I felt like I needed to be more mature.

And I knew you were talking before about having that sort of modeling through language from other people to you, or you're so responsible. And how that made you feel like you had some shoes to fill, right? Even if it's not conscious. But I had some of that kind of energy as well. And I remember by the time I was in high school, like kids who would be more like the quote class clowns and just be really playful and silly and making jokes all the time.

Bonnie (19:20.046)
Hmm.

Grey (19:48.236)
I noticed that I started to feel judgment of them and like disparaging of the way that they were showing up because I felt like that we were too old to be acting like that. And so it was just like even expressions of like laughter and playfulness and in these social contexts and stuff. I was shutting down a lot of that too and myself.

Bonnie (19:57.983)
Hmm.

Bonnie (20:10.22)
Hmm.

Grey (20:10.456)
Yeah.

Bonnie (20:12.994)
Yeah, that's fascinating. I think the places where we might judge others and when we slow those down and then, right. And then we like turn it around and we're like, why am I being judgmental of that? Is that something that I want? Is that something that I have put a box around myself or been told is a certain way that I can or cannot exist or do or be or whatever? I'm asking for.

Grey (20:23.086)
projections for sure.

Bonnie (20:42.222)
questions. think the curiosity around those judgments is like so key, especially stepping into, I think, this play and play as like a whole topic. And because we're going to keep discovering that, think we're in our 40s. And in 10 years from now, we'll probably be like, my gosh, OK, now I get it. We're going to find more layers. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Grey (21:04.566)
Yeah, we're just coming online now.

Bonnie (21:10.978)
Yeah, thank you for sharing though about how like you felt like this responsibility piece was really then heavy to hold and kind of a shutdown of play. And you're right, was told I was responsible. I was always told that I was the example as like the oldest kid to you. And I have felt that and I have a little bit embraced it, but also get annoyed with myself. Like Bonnie, why are you so being so responsible? Because I have that.

built into me, feel like in a way as well. think as a parent, there's a piece of that that I feel that I'm like, I have to show up for people and then being a business owner and then like putting things, I'm like, okay, I got it. This is my responsibility here. So I think for me, this feels important because the play experiment feels very personally important because there is responsibility that I have picked up in my life. There are things that I am responsible for and actually I like them and I want them.

And there's other programming in me that is like the past church and the past whatever, like the other parts of me, they're like, you don't break the rules and what is the rules and how, you know, and so I think so much of my experience within, within what I work with yoga teachers too is like, okay, what are the rules and how do we break them? And so play being something that for me has brought me a lot of freedom.

and a lot of redefining words. think even redefining some words that had different meanings in the past is a way of play for me and just finding new permission for myself. And so in my desire to like make shit happen, which comes with the level of responsibility, that's going to be heavy as shit and zero fun if I don't find ways to bring play into it and to recognize where play might already exist in it.

Grey (23:04.778)
Absolutely. think about how, you know, as you're speaking about play and responsibility, as if these are like mutually exclusive things. Like, I think this is a myth that exists in our culture, as we think that in order to be quote responsible and to be adults, that also means that we're letting go of our play and these other aspects of ourselves. And I think that's to our detriment, you know, I think that's a lot of why we feel we are unhealthy and we feel boxed in and we feel

Bonnie (23:21.539)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (23:26.254)
Hmm.

Grey (23:34.89)
apathetic and all these different things, I think it comes back to this. And so some of this, yeah, is absolutely about how we are understanding, conceptualizing ourselves and words and are so important for me and the ways that we label things, how we understand them. And a lot of my background is in sociology. That's how I was trained. spent about 10 years as a sociologist research student.

And so it's a lot of this understanding like how we are actually made, our belief systems come to be through social, through society, through our churches, through our institutions, through our schools, all these kinds of things, and how we come to understand ourselves in relation to what we've been told and in relation to other people. And how we understand, how we label things determines.

Bonnie (24:09.582)
Hmm.

Grey (24:28.706)
how we interpret them determines the meaning that we make, the emotions that we feel, the actions that we take, all of that. And so coming back to this concept of play is like, I do think that we need a redefinition of it. And we also need to recognize that we are these integrated selves. We don't actually compartmentalize ourselves. That's an illusion as well. We can't really do that. And so we are...

Bonnie (24:42.286)
Hmm.

Grey (24:54.35)
these whole selves, the child is still within us, all of that play, all of that energy that is a part of us, and not allowing that to be expressed and to find these channels in our lives hinders us in so many ways. And so of course, you're finding freedom in your life and your relationships and your work and all of these things as you are giving yourself more permission because it's allowing you to be more of your whole self and to show up more wholly.

Bonnie (25:09.43)
Hmm.

Grey (25:22.094)
and more resourced and vital for all of the people and all of the things that you're doing and all that you're trying to create. So, 100%, 100 % with you.

Bonnie (25:33.807)
Mm. You said that perfectly.

I think about how people say, you know, work-life balance. And I'm like, well, my work is like, it's all connected, actually. Like for some people, there might be like, you're going, you're doing a thing, and then you're not doing the thing. But for me, it is my life. I like everything is woven together. And that's already what I think about in regards to how I hold work and life and which is its own sort of

invitation to like explore, be like, okay, what am I picking up and why am I picking up? But I think that because it's so integrated into all the things that I do, this conversation of exactly how you have said it, where I'm not compartmentalizing. I'm not like, okay, I'm to be like, I'm doing this here and this here. I'm like, this is all of me. I'm full ass, like full ass. This is what my ass looks like. This is what we're doing. This is what we're sending it. And then it's going to, I'm going to bring me

like all of me to the table. And that it is when we allow all of these different parts of us to be integrated that that's when we feel like we're authentically living. That's when we feel like we're being honest and like acting in integrity of like who we are and how we're presenting and how we're like moving with the world. And I think that's like my ultimate goal is to like make spaces and everything that I offer to like be an invitation for other people to step into themselves.

Grey (26:49.944)
Enjoy.

Bonnie (27:08.564)
so they can authentically express themselves and build the life that makes them feel most free. That's it.

Grey (27:15.086)
Absolutely, mean so much of we're talking about is finding flow and like integrity, know, and like finding ourselves and our center. As you're talking about all of these things in your life unfolding, it's like you've been finding flow through this process of coming into integration with yourself. Like we live in all these different fractured ways, it's these fractured selves. And when we actually give ourselves permission to bring all of that together,

and we understand who we actually are and what we want, and then we do what we can to realign our lives and our relationships and things in integrity with ourselves and what we understand ourselves to be, so much in our lives will flow as a consequence of that. so you and I are both really focused on helping people cultivate the sense of authenticity and integrity and purpose and all of that.

And similarly, I feel like this is the medicine that we need and this is a lot of the leadership that we need as people coming into their integrity and then allowing themselves to express in their relationships, in their lives, in their businesses, according to that. And I was actually, I just heard something yesterday, like this has been a philosophy of mine for a while, where I feel like I can be of most service to the world and impact in the world if I,

Bonnie (28:26.381)
Mm-hmm.

Grey (28:40.768)
If I do the work of coming into integrity with myself and allow myself to be witnessed, that's very vulnerable, that's very hard, but that gives other people permission to do the same and we need that. We become collaboratively, so we need people to model this sort of stuff for ourselves. And it's really like the authenticity is what magnetizes all that I want in my life. And just yesterday I was hearing Dr. Zach Bush, who's one of my

favorite wisdom teachers talking about how they found that authenticity is the most resonant frequency, even more than love. And so we feel that in our bodies and in our spirits when people are living in their authenticity and that's why we feel so attracted to it. That's why we want more of it in our lives. And I think like that's what we need. If more of us are living in that way, think of all the resonant energy that we get to pool.

Bonnie (29:22.573)
Hmm.

Grey (29:38.466)
that we get to create in the worlds that we get to make by being ourselves. And to that end, also like doing the shit that's actually in alignment with us, the work, as you're talking about work that feels like play, it's because you're doing the stuff that speaks to your soul and your purpose, and you're not trying to live this other life and put yourself in this kind of box and be compartmentalized. So yeah, it feels more useful and more flowing because like that's actually what...

Bonnie (29:38.958)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (29:43.224)
Yeah.

Bonnie (29:54.861)
Go.

Grey (30:06.454)
our lives and our bodies. And I think all of the universal energy that we're swimming in wants, it wants to flow. And our job is just to like get out of the way of the flow that wants to happen.

Bonnie (30:13.218)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (30:17.058)
Yeah, yeah, totally. And also like, as I'm listening to us, I'm like, and it's a lot of fucking work. Like, like, like, I don't want to like have this be the conversation. We're like, okay, we're in the flow. Like everything is easy. I'm like, my gosh. Like the, the amount of, of self-awareness that's, that I have had to build of like, who am I?

Grey (30:26.422)
Yes, yeah, play with work.

Bonnie (30:46.454)
Who am I today? What do I need? What do I want? How do I share that? How do I like say the things to myself? Like how do I give myself permission to explore something? What does this mean to me over here? How does this person impact? what, like who's in my circle? Like how's the structure of like what I'm up to? Like, wait a second, this thing made me feel a way. Why did it make me feel this way? And I think the levels of awareness and attention to my own.

journey, like there's no rush to it. And I think it can sound simplified when we talk about like, just play. Like, here's an example. Like, go do this thing. And it's like a, and I think in our play prompts for this month, right? Or like, okay, like, let's try on, like, this is like pocket. I love that in your stories today, I think you used the word pocket play, pocket size play. Pocket, make it pocket size. Pocket size play.

Grey (31:38.834)
make it pocket sized. Yeah, pocket sized.

Bonnie (31:44.276)
You were talking about cooking your breakfast and the joy of it and the play of making this food and making it look pretty. It doesn't have to be big to be a little step in a direction that would feel good. I think ultimately I want there to be a solid understanding that there's no end point, that there's nowhere to get to. Because we are evolving our entire lives,

And we will see though, if we do step into like owning what we want and how we want to move, we will see ourselves grow. We will like be able to look back and be like, the me five years ago is a different me than this me. And it is going to take like attention and permission and like,

holding the consequence of giving yourself permission and like that experience, it is gonna require a journey to like step into like yourself, but it doesn't have to be like thrust. Like you don't have to like thrust yourself into it really. I mean, you can like, there might be an instance where you're like, I'm thrusting now. I'm like, I mean, we're all for thrusting around here, it's fine.

Grey (33:01.996)
Yeah, I think like the taking this incrementally is really important. Just with anything like any craft. This is so much about self mastery, but any craft, any new skill that we're trying to learn, there's always this period where shit is hard and awkward and uncomfortable and we have to put in the wraps and do all the things. And it's like maybe months and years down the road when we actually get to find flow with whatever it is that we're doing. So yeah, there is a lot of architecture.

that has to be in place internally and often in our lives to be able to facilitate that. And I'm very much a, like I'm a student of life. This is all about mastery and refinement. And it's just, it's falling in love with the process. And I think that that's so much of what play represents for me is like when we are playing for the most part, when we get out of our egoic minds and maybe competitiveness that might exist and wanting to get a certain place if we're playing games.

Bonnie (33:32.504)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (33:46.958)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Bonnie (33:57.058)
Yeah.

Grey (34:00.512)
and that sort of thing. But like when we remove that, it's really just about the pleasure and the experience and following curiosities and being with other people in whatever the contexts are. And it's just that, you know? And so for me, lot of this cultivating more of a spirit of play in my life has been through these little incremental kind of atomic habits, to borrow the phrase from James Clear.

Bonnie (34:26.409)
Yeah.

Grey (34:26.602)
where we give ourselves this permission to play in all these different kinds of ways and we slowly begin to find ourselves and this scaffolding that we need to be able to hold ourselves. I was actually just thinking early this morning about how when I used to teach yoga in studios, I was really into alignment focused flow and like hot the flow. And I feel like there's a beautiful analogy to

Bonnie (34:38.134)
Hmm. Yes.

Grey (34:55.16)
to play as well. And the spirit that I think about a play of like a curious and courageous participation in our lives. But just like with alignment, flow work, yes, we are moving and breathing. And we're also really paying attention to the architecture of our bodies and to alignment and certain things and how it feels and what these little micro adjustments can do to support or to inhibit flow and all of that. Right. And a lot of it is also like

this early on learning what some of the rules are and where our boundaries are and our mobility and our range of motion. And then we get to like later on kind of break the rules. But I think having this through line, this structure, the form that we talk about, which is this internal like holding is so, so important to give ourselves permission with time to play bigger and to play bolder and to play wilder. But in the beginning and not just the beginning, but in lot of the early stages.

Bonnie (35:39.383)
Yeah.

Bonnie (35:47.054)
Mmm.

Grey (35:54.624)
Our brains and bodies need incremental exposure to things, repetition. This is how we sustainably change our lives and transform is like, is through these meeting our edges little by little and expanding. And so if people want to bring more play into their lives, joy, whatever is their motivation for being here, I always come back to like,

Bonnie (36:03.523)
Yeah.

Mm.

Grey (36:23.882)
start small, make it easy, and frequency is more important than intensity and duration.

Bonnie (36:31.842)
Yeah. Yes. And I like that.

the kind of this idea of starting small before you play bigger. Just like when I have teachers that will come to me and be like, my gosh, I am a leader in this other way and I'm totally fine standing up and talking in front of people and like sharing my thoughts about like X, Y, Z in this other part of my life. But I get up in front of the yoga room and I like, I want to barf and I'm feeling so overwhelmed and.

like and nervous and feel like an imposter and like all of these things that they say, they're like, but over here, it doesn't feel like that. So I think it's the same with play. There might be some things that people come to and they're like, I already do this. this was really easy. But then another thing they're like, what the, like, this feels like hot to touch. This feels like a little bit edgy for me where it might be the other thing for like somebody else. So for somebody it's like, okay, I'm ready to push. I am ready to step into this, this kind of play a little bit bigger.

And then this kind of play, I'm going to take baby steps in. it doesn't have to, like play doesn't have to mean like one thing. Like there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of avenues in that.

Grey (37:41.475)
Yeah.

There's so many ways, yeah. I think so much of this comes back to just like listening in and paying attention, noticing what is arising, you know, what kind of resistance or triggering or different things like that, and listening to what those edges are, you know, because yes, we can, like, we can jump into something, we can feel really captivated by something and wanna go play big, and sometimes if that's really like way beyond our comfort zone.

Bonnie (37:52.781)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (38:00.128)
Mm-hmm.

Grey (38:10.466)
then we might have this period of contraction and in the long term sometimes that can actually inhibit our expansion and growth because then we need to come back from what might have been a too big experience or an overwhelming experience of something even if in the moment it felt really good and it felt supportive in a lot of ways.

Bonnie (38:26.264)
Totally.

Yeah. Yeah. I even think of that with weight training with people, as I, as I help people step into weight training, sometimes they get so sore. And when you're in the, in the moment of like lifting weights and you're like, my gosh, this is fun. I am like here and with other people, I'm doing something new. Our brains love having something new to do and like solve a new problem. Like that's very exciting. Is that some people will be like, I'm lifting and it, and it might not be like,

Grey (38:49.538)
Yes.

Bonnie (38:57.624)
like a crazy amount of weight, but they just haven't done it before. And then they're so sore. They're like, I can't even, like it hurts to drive my car, to be a steering wheel. Like I can't sit down on the toilet without my legs hurting. So that in the long run might inhibit their desire to come back, even though it's something they liked in the moment because of the repercussion of it. And I think that's like a very physical way to kind of describe.

it might not be so physical for some things, but that you'll feel a way that you're like, okay, that was too much. And you might then not want to touch it again, where it's like, actually just do a little bit less and just do it more often and let yourself like, be like, okay, let's just try it and then step out and try it and step out. And yeah, yeah.

Grey (39:41.569)
Yeah.

Grey (39:45.034)
I think you're speaking to some of this like negative potential for negative reinforcement. You know, where we have these experiences, even if it's like soreness, some kind of something that causes us contractions, like so much of that ultimately ends up being unconscious next time around. I just like in our nervous systems, like that patterning or whatever that reminder. And when our brains are already biased in the direction of focusing on negative things, more often than positive things, like we retain the memory of that in our bodies and brains.

And so we need like way more positive stuff to actually like help lift us out. So I think it's important to remember that when we are trying to change our lives where we do have this culture that really pushes like extreme and quick fixes and end goals and all of the things. And so it's natural for a lot of us to rush into things like this. And also, know, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. And I say this to that.

Bonnie (40:31.073)
Mm-hmm.

Grey (40:43.394)
this is how we create a sustainable kind of practice.

Bonnie (40:49.102)
So I'm yeah. Okay, so I've wanted to define a little bit or not define it. Like, I just want to talk specifically because I think the way that sometimes or maybe what it might sound like is we're like talking about play is like, play, like let's just say like, what does play mean? But like to make it, I mean, before we dive in even more to some things, like I just use the example of working out and to say like, you can go to a workout and it can count as play.

like shared about your breakfast and like how you plated your food or what ingredients you added. That is play. How you might, here's one. I have a friend who, she will sometimes go to get coffee. And if she doesn't want somebody to know her name, she puts her name, like she says her name is Tuesday. Like,

that is play and then they're yelling out Tuesday. Like that's play. Right? And I'm like, I want to do that. Like that sounds amazing. today I am wearing several layered necklaces and I've decided recently that I'm to wear necklaces and I wanted to, I would see people wearing necklaces and I'm like, I like, am I a necklace person? I think it looks really cool. Can I pull that off? And I wanted to do it, but I was like, I don't know how to do it. Like, is that going to look dumb? And then it was,

Grey (41:49.23)
Yeah.

Bonnie (42:15.276)
what, last week, the week before, I don't know, I put something on and I was like, you know, I'm put that one necklace thing I had on. And I put it was like, my gosh, I feel amazing. And then now I've worn this necklace a couple of times and now I layered like two necklaces. And I was like, great. But that's play. And so it can mean these things and then it can also mean like infinite bigger things. it doesn't have to have like a certain...

Grey (42:24.322)
you look amazing.

Grey (42:32.078)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (42:44.268)
a certain amount of time or intensity to it to count as play.

Grey (42:49.816)
Yeah, I think so much of it is really curiosity. You were just, as you were asking questions, right? For me, so much of my play, comes through the questions that I ask myself. Like, what would happen if I did this? how would these two things go together? Or how would I feel if I did this? And so it's like, what are those curious impulses that you find in yourself? And then just like consciously choosing sometimes to test them out and see what happens. And so much.

Bonnie (43:16.351)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Grey (43:19.442)
can come into our lives and our world like through that. I think about so many things in my own closet where I've just been like, I wonder how this would be. And I just give myself permission to fuck around and style stuff. And I'm like, this is amazing. But I have to ask the question first because it might be things that I have been told don't go together or that I'm not supposed to wear or whatever. And so yeah, questions. What are the questions that lead you in?

Bonnie (43:23.458)
Yeah.

Bonnie (43:36.311)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (43:48.302)
Yeah, yeah. one of the other things I want to say for play is that I feel like I didn't use that word for a long time in reference to myself until I opened up in non-monogamy and in a non-traditional relationship in the end of my marriage. I'm divorced now.

Grey (44:09.518)
Mm.

Bonnie (44:17.198)
But that was a part of the story of that and there's an element of like that using that word a lot within open relationship land. And so I think I want to be clear here too that like yes, sex and sensuality of like embodies like yes, like yes, this is play and yes, there's going to be some invitations within this month for people to find play in their bodies and in like

sexuality and those things, but this is a solo experience. I mean, you can do this with other people. We won't put those rules on it. Yes, but like the prompts don't have to be done with somebody else. That's what I'm saying. But also they could be. Like you can make that rule if you want. Yes, invite your friends, do it with your friends and then you can talk about it and have like a good way to connect with other people.

Grey (44:51.662)
I mean, we want you to invite your friends.

Grey (45:00.238)
Yeah. Yeah.

Bonnie (45:11.212)
Just I think I want to be clear about that, because I've had people ask me like, is this like a sex thing? Is this like how, or is this a yoga thing? Because I do so much yoga. Or is this like, what is this going to be? Like what's the slant on this? And it's a whole ass self. It's like all of the things. And you get to choose. you hit something and you hit day 17 and we're like, OK, here's the thing. And you're like, what? Like, I don't know if I can do.

Grey (45:17.496)
Yeah.

Grey (45:27.64)
Yeah.

Bonnie (45:40.642)
do that, like that's so uncomfortable, then one, you don't have to fucking do it. That's an option. Like you're, you make the rules. And so if you don't want to, you don't have to. Number two, we would invite you to be curious about it and be like, why is that like upsetting to me? Right? Like what, and maybe that's like just a journal moment and you're like, I'm just going to like journal about this. I'm going to take a minute and just write down a couple of sentences. Why is this bother me?

Grey (45:57.14)
What's coming up?

Bonnie (46:09.228)
Why is this feel uncomfortable? What's my judgment around this? Like, do I think I'm a person that does this or not or can do this or not? Like, ask yourself a question or is this feel too silly? Like, do you not wanna do it because it seems dumb? Like truly, be like, this is too basic. That could be interesting too.

So, and also you can, you know, like you can make up your own rules here, but there might be those things that we run into and so no, this is not about sex and sensuality, but those are parts of who we are. And so we will be referencing that within this play experiment. And that like really the gift to for me that the word play did come back in.

to my life, I think more when I was like, we're going to play with people. when play in that time in my life too, very specifically meant to a lot of like physical connection with people in intimate ways. I definitely like, I think we would both just invite people to be like, yeah, like call whatever you're doing with other people or yourself in like sexual and sensual ways play like a hundred percent. And this is bigger than that.

Grey (47:17.484)
Yeah, I appreciate you speaking to that. I think that when we get in, folks will start to realize that through some of the prompts and some of what we're offering, that they're already playing in different ways, but maybe they haven't been calling it that. As we were talking about before we started recording, that so much of this for me is about helping to reconceptualize play.

And when we think about this, kind of energy that we bring to experiences based on how we're categorizing them or what we think the expectations are and all of that, a lot of this is just, is trying to dissolve a lot of that and to, and so I think like there's going to be that, you know, and because we are bringing in all of these different dimensions of playing and we're calling them that.

Like it's understandable that it's also like people are experiencing some kind of like cognitive dissonance. like, but wait, what is this? And because they only know play in these more prescriptive kinds of ways in these channels that we've been allowed to play. And as adults, like we have this domain. I'm kind of guilty of this too, of coming into adult play spaces and things and starting to think about play as something that.

only can happen in the realms of that, you know? And so yes, all of these things are true and also play is experimentation. And if we want to just in presence and curiosity that we can apply that to so many things. And that's a lot of what this experiment is about is just helping to like create some of that tapestry for people to play bigger and more dimensionally.

Bonnie (48:42.958)
Hmm.

Bonnie (48:56.43)
Yeah. Yeah. So we're calling this the play experiment, but I think play is experimentation. so like this is what it is. Yes. we are, we are. Well, and I want to bring in, you know, as, I work with a lot of people who are trying to do cool shit in the world, right? If you're trying to run a business and you're like, like

Grey (49:04.052)
Yes. It's a fun bit of redundancy that I actually appreciate. We're experimenting experimenting play-by-play.

Bonnie (49:24.14)
taking care of other humans and you're trying to take care of yourself and you're trying to be a leader. Like I think I especially feel like this is important because we can get burned out. I'm gonna feel stuck. And when you like get to that depleted part of you, it really sucks. And it's gonna happen. Like you're gonna go through cycles of it. then we have to like have the tools of how do we pull ourselves out of that? Or how do we start to recognize it before we get to that place?

and then help ourselves be like, wait, I know some things. Like I know some things about myself or know some ways to support myself. I think this feels important to me in like all of the work that I do with people who are trying to like be leaders in the, speaking to like yoga and wellness industries. Personally, in my conversations where play does not mean like.

you like what can you do for yourself that like feels like play? This is not like the example of I could watch a movie or I could like get a glass of wine and like go, you know, whatever. So this is not about alcohol. This is not about like Netflix. This is not Netflix and chill. This is bigger than that. And you know, when I give this prompt to people and then kind of sit with them and help them define play, I like to...

have them think about like, well, what would feel like really decadent and almost like kind of rebellious and, and like, feel like just like a pure delight, be like, Ooh, like I get to do this. Like, this is exciting. And where I pitched that to somebody and they're like, I would just like to sit in a coffee shop with my coffee and no devices and nothing. And I just want to sit there and people watch. It's so fun to me. And to give that person themselves, like that permission to do that, like that's play. And I was like, yes, that. And they're like,

Grey (51:18.06)
Yeah.

Bonnie (51:19.682)
Like that thing that lights you up that doesn't have to be to prove, to profit or to produce. And you just get to give yourself permission to like be in that space. Like that's what we're going for.

Grey (51:34.466)
Yeah, it's just permission to experience other parts of yourself, you know, in these different ways. I love that example.

Bonnie (51:39.2)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Recently, I was invited a friend who was going to an ecstatic dance and I thought I got the time wrong. Well, I did get the time wrong. And then I told this friend that I was like, well, I'm not going to make it. And then my youngest kid who is like such my cheerleader, he's like, mom, you still could just go like you're going to have so much fun. This is my 13 year old. He's always like, mom.

You're gonna like it. Just like, we're gonna be fine. He's always like, we're fine. I got to do this for dinner. Like, it's good. Just like go, mom, you're gonna love it. Like, seriously, like he's an amazing kid. And I was like, you know what? I'll go. Like, I'll just go. And then actually by the time I got there, this friend had left, cause I was like, okay, I'm not gonna make it. I didn't know. And I thought it had a specific start time, but I just went and I went to dance and it was in the middle of the week and my kids are at home.

And I was like, I could go and dance for two hours all by myself at this place and then leave and have it be okay. And this is like a Tuesday or Wednesday. It was a Wednesday night. I like a hump day. Like let's go, let's go shake it. Right. And then go home. And where I was just laughing at myself as I walked out of this, cause I let myself play, let myself do the thing that I'm like, that's not what I do.

Like I'm going to drive in from suburbia. Like I'm going to drive in a half hour. I'm going to go dance for a couple of hours. I'm going to drive back for a half hour. My kids like, they're going to have to, he's going to have to put himself in bed. And like, I usually like to tuck him in, but like, he's not like, and he's like, mom, I'm fine. I'll see you in the morning. Right. And I'm like, okay. And just like, I mean, this is my kids helping me give myself permission. Right. But then the power, I think of community of like friends to like do this with you too, which is why I think it's can be powerful to invite.

Grey (53:29.602)
Yeah.

Bonnie (53:30.894)
people close to you. But you know, in that experience just a couple of weeks ago, I was laughing when I was like, I'm so rebellious. I'm a mom who's like going to a dance on like Wednesday nights, a static dance, like there's a cool group of humans, like I didn't know anybody. And I just went by myself, like also doing things alone. I think that's actually a really big piece of play where we often show up for a lot of other people.

And I think this experiment is also an invitation to solo experiences and let those feed you so that you can show up with like more presence and more power in you because you're more connected to your own home than yourself. And then it changes how you can show up with others. I think that's a big one.

Grey (54:20.526)
Absolutely. I mean, it also helps us to cultivate discernment, I think, you know, and as we experience and we learn so much about ourselves and our bodies and our minds and all these things, like through these different ways that we're playing, that that's all beautiful information for us to refine how we're moving through our lives and how we're approaching other people. so it's so nourishing and supportive for us to actually tend to ourselves in these ways.

because it all flows back out. And so often we feel like, especially like women being conditioned to be over givers and caregivers and all this sort of stuff, like we all have that and then there's a unique way in which women hold, right? And so we can feel all this guilt and the shame and all these kinds of stories about how we're not allowed to show up in these different kinds of ways and give ourselves these kinds of things. And...

Bonnie (54:52.813)
Mm-hmm.

Grey (55:18.626)
We're upside down in a lot of that thinking, actually, that we think that sacrificing a lot of what brings us joy and aliveness is going to benefit the people. And I'm a big believer of as within, so without. As without, so within. We're in a dynamic. And so if we want our people to feel loved and to thrive and to feel supported, we need to give that to ourselves.

And we need to, and that's also a way that we get to show people how we want to be treated and how we want to be in the world, you know? So it's so beneficial for all the dynamics. And I love that, and I love that you spoke to that piece of collaboration, right? And how your son was encouraging you to go lean in, you know, and to give yourself permission and be like, we got this. We're okay, go do your thing. It gets going to be great. And how even when we're doing fun things,

Bonnie (55:53.506)
Mm-hmm.

Grey (56:11.436)
or things that we anticipate in having fun and experiencing pleasure doing, it's still often scary. having friends and accountability and others to support us in that is so huge. And so that's why this is a big part of what we're inviting for the play experiment and inviting people to bring their friends is that a lot of this might feel like difficult in practice and doing this together and in collaboration.

Bonnie (56:24.376)
Yeah.

Grey (56:41.65)
is going to be supportive and healing for everyone. And I feel so much that renewing that understanding of us is like a collaborative species that we are really meant to become together and to grow together and all the things. And you say it all the time, like we don't grow alone, that we need each other and we need each other to play to.

Bonnie (56:46.06)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (57:03.276)
Yeah, yeah. And I think it is, I know you're just speaking to maybe perhaps those who are assigned female at birth, right? And a women's experience. But I think it truly is all of us. Like it really is all of us in the way that we might feel like we have to hold ourselves and prove ourselves and...

Grey (57:22.381)
Yeah.

Bonnie (57:32.696)
There's just so much wiggle room.

And I think it's interesting, my oldest kid is in college and he's home right now and just like his focus and his drive and what he's gonna do and the impact of, you know, other people in his life, like their example, this is what you do and this is how you do it. And I'm like, well, yeah, that's a way to do it. But like the more people I'm exposed to, I'm like, there's so many ways to do your life or to discover your path or like,

and you know he's gonna find it and he'll like you know he's on it he is on it he's not gonna find it he's on it but that you know i think i i hold like the space of you know there's like an open space how do we have like an open field where i'm not grasping anything

I can be a little curious and a little brave and it's going to take a lot of curiosity and lot of bravery for some things in my life. Kind of ridiculous amounts sometimes. But we're already on the path. And I think for this play experiment is I hope, you know, like for both of us that there's this recognition of every, of all of us that we're like, I already am finding play.

And I actually can just claim it as this. Like this is, like I'm already doing this.

Grey (58:52.78)
Mm-hmm.

Grey (58:56.332)
Yeah, I've been thinking about more conceptual play, thinking about embodied play and conceptual play. as I was saying earlier, for a long time, I felt like I wasn't playing. And where I was like, I was in academia and really focused on that knowledge and discovery and playing with ideas. I didn't realize it at the time, but it was a highly creative space. I was doing a lot of conceptual play and

Bonnie (58:57.923)
Yeah.

Bonnie (59:19.022)
Mm.

Grey (59:24.814)
understanding how we make ourselves through our ideas about things and experiences, and then going around and traveling the world and just observing and learning. was just trying to glean so much information. And that was hugely playful, you know? But I didn't think of it that way. And so, so much of what I'm excited about here is just playing with the ideas.

in this space and all the different ways that that can look and how individual that can be and bringing a lot of our awareness to all of these ways that we get made and our behaviors in our lives and things unfold based on how we think about things and based on as you were kind of speaking to before where

Bonnie (59:59.598)
Hmm.

Grey (01:00:19.244)
and your son and some of his dynamics and friends and kind of finding this way is that we are a relational species. Like so much of how we understand ourselves is in relation to other people and it's in relation to what we see other people doing and what other people tell us. And so we do get to come to like reclaim ourselves in some of these ways and find out what our own ideas are and what are some of our own beliefs that we want to maybe hold.

and engender in our lives around who we are and how we show up. then like in that permission giving and expressing and all of that, we also then get to show other people that, there are more ways to think about X thing or there are more ways to be in this kind of space. And so it all just comes back.

Bonnie (01:00:50.413)
Yeah.

Bonnie (01:01:08.739)
Yeah.

Bonnie (01:01:12.524)
Yeah, yeah, and that you get to personalize that experience.

I feel like that's part of what I am hearing from you. And think one of the things that we're giving people then is like this prompt and everything is a prompt. Whatever I do, there's always a prompt involved. I think it's like truly anytime I'm just like, well, there's a prompt and there's a prompt, like so many things that I create because I think it can be overwhelming to say, where do I begin? Like I want something different.

So if we want something different, we don't have to do something different, but like, where do I begin? Like the field is so big. There's so many options. And so for this, then we're like, okay, here is a place to be. And here's the ingredients of the day. Use these ingredients of the day. Now you're going to make it however you want. You can turn it left. You can turn it right. You can turn it on its head. You can like take a baby bite. can like one gulp it. Like however you want to do this, you can play with how you want to do it, but here's a way to start.

And then maybe you'll be like, my gosh, like Bonnie and gray, you gave me this prompt and it was going to be like, I had five minutes, but then three hours went by and we'll be like, welcome to your life.

Grey (01:02:31.278)
Yeah, there's going to be these different layers, know, like choose your own adventure, know, opportunities to just make it quick and easy if that's what you have time and space and bandwidth for and then places, opportunities, additional prompts and things to invite you if you have more spaciousness or you do want to go more deeply with things. And so there's going to be this whole spectrum of experience.

Bonnie (01:02:41.411)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (01:02:54.016)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I like how, too, that we get to claim the story we want to tell. And the words that we use are powerful. I think of, let's go back to Play-Doh. Like one of my kids being like, am I too old for Play-Doh? And my other kid being like sculpting with clay. And I'm like, it's both soft squishy stuff that you're making shapes out of. But like my...

Grey (01:03:16.14)
It's the same.

Bonnie (01:03:21.134)
the one who's doing stuff out of clay, he's like, I'm an artist. Like I'm claiming that as an artist. So there's a story that we're telling around like the type of person I am and what I do. And so another person is like, well, but I'm not an artist in that way. And where you're saying like, I wasn't playing, but really in your brain and the way you were like thinking about things you were playing. And so that sometimes we box it in and say, this is somebody who plays and this is what you do if you play. And so same thing as like people saying like, I'm not an artist.

And I am one of the things that Flow School, I'm like, you're a movement artist. Like if you're a teacher, you're a movement artist. This is what we're doing. And this is what Flow School is about. And so embracing our artistry and our creativity is, I think, part of this play experiment as well.

Grey (01:04:07.862)
Absolutely. just awakening, if people aren't already in touch with that, to what you're talking about, this intrinsic artistry and creativity that we all possess. We are inherently creative beings. And so much of our inability to actualize, to move with creative impulses and artistic impulses and all these things in our lives are because of the stories that we have about our identity, that that's not us.

And so coming back to how play brings us into ourselves and who we are, like we get to touch a lot of our intrinsic creativity and artistry through giving ourselves permission to play with ideas and different exercises and all of that. And it just has this beautiful ability to allow us to open and unfurl in all these different kinds of ways. And...

And there is an invitation then to also really look at one's identity and like, who am I and how do I see myself? I hope that more people will recognize that they're already playful in certain ways and that this is an opportunity to just lean in and to find out more about what their particular artistry looks like and the uniqueness of that, because we're all here to express in a particular kind of way, I believe.

Bonnie (01:05:10.678)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (01:05:15.222)
Yeah.

Bonnie (01:05:32.205)
Yeah.

Grey (01:05:32.256)
And so I love that we're gonna, there's gonna be a whole palette and people just get kind of get to drop in and see where curiosities guide them and experiences unfold. And yeah, it's gonna be great.

Bonnie (01:05:44.278)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that it doesn't like you and I don't look the same. We don't play the same. We don't think the same. And we both can be like, OK, I'm going to play in this way. And we can celebrate each other in that. And so I am excited for our weekly Zoom. So we're going to meet every Friday from like 12 to 1 Pacific time and have an opportunity to have a play experiment together as a group, which will be fun, like a different. if.

Grey (01:06:03.106)
Yeah.

Bonnie (01:06:12.024)
people can't make it, then we'll send the replay. They can like do it on their own. But the play of being able to see each other's faces and be aware that, I'm not doing this alone. Like all of us are stepping into this and all of us are giving ourselves permission to do something different, to be a little bold, to be a little bit curious and to play in maybe some ways that are new and then have an opportunity to also have some group share. If that's something that's stokes people up, like some people are like, no,

Way, not speaking up at all. And maybe somebody else is like, you know what, that's going to be play today. I'm assigning that as play. I'm going to like speak up. Right. but that there will be that opportunity as well to feel like you're in community and for this experience as we're going into this new year. And, and of course, in addition to if you create a play pod, which is an encouragement for us, because I don't know, it's fun. It's fun to like, if I have my, a friend in another state where I'm just like, Hey,

let's do this play experiment, we can text it every day and be like, how was it today? Like, what'd you do? Then that can be a way to both make it fun and to connect with somebody else and maybe also hold yourself accountable because life can get all lifey on us and be a little bit wild. And so it can feel supportive too.

Grey (01:07:33.088)
Absolutely, and I think there's also a beauty in the having people that you feel like who are in a similar kind of experience to you, where you also have the opportunity to maybe like process and talk about some of what's coming up for you. And there's so there's this way that it can cultivate a deeper intimacy with your people and of course with yourself too. So I hope that I hope that folks will get on the play pod action. I think it's going to be a cool element to it. And I also kind of just speaking to

Bonnie (01:07:51.01)
Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Grey (01:08:02.484)
this point about reservations we might have in showing up in social media in different kinds of ways, these experiences and like, yes, that is an opportunity to play. And also for some people that doesn't feel generative or nourishing. And so by maybe engaging with Play Pods, like you don't feel like you have to do this Instagram challenge and post and share publicly and all the things. Maybe it's a more inner circle Play Pod kind of space where you feel like

Bonnie (01:08:09.486)
Mm.

Grey (01:08:30.796)
That's what you can give yourself permission to show up and to maybe be more vulnerable and expressed. And you're just sharing your experiences with an inner circle of people. So kind of coming back to this choose your own adventure, like there's a lot of ways that people can participate.

Bonnie (01:08:40.259)
Yeah.

Bonnie (01:08:46.06)
Yeah, no, thank you for that. And so because I'm so much on Instagram, do a lot there, this will, I will be sharing, like we'll be sharing, then like showing up and talking about the play prompts for the month of January, but they will not be accessed. Like people won't be able to see the play prompt from Instagram, from social media. So once you join the challenge, then you'll get the instructions. So the invitation is if you, if that sounds fun to you, use the hashtag January.

the hashtag January play experiment. And then you can search that and find other people and then comment on each other's. this is truly how I grew on Instagram. This is how I built the community that I have is because I participated in things like this. And I searched the hashtag and I went and commented on like 10 people's pages and responded and commented on the host pages. And like we did, like it was a whole community experience. And so if you're not feeling like you have people in your life that are like,

I don't know if I haven't made my life that is interested in doing this with their life. Then you can use the hashtag and build this kind of experience with other people without calling it a play pod. You can just show up and be like, okay, this person's interesting. And years ago, like so many years ago, I have hosted a couple yoga challenges and I was talking recently to one person who participated in

the in those challenges and there was a group of four of them who really connected who did not know each other before and they live like spread out like in different continents and like different states like they're like spread out and over the years now they have gotten together in person they still keep in contact and that was because of a yoga Instagram challenge and that's so beautiful to me.

And so I think this idea of like create, create a play pod with people, you know, great. And if you don't, or if that's like, you're like, you know what, actually I want new people in my life, search the hashtag and then just show the fuck up. Like go do the thing, you know, and that doesn't mean like one day you're like, okay, actually I'm underwater today. Then don't do it that day. the next day, but like do the thing. Like you show up and if we, cause if we want something different, I have to do something different and there will have to be a give, I think with that. And if you're going to take five minutes to do something that we're going to call play today.

Grey (01:10:39.49)
Yeah.

Bonnie (01:11:07.98)
that might mean that you have to think about your day and be like, wow. think of, you know, I've been thinking a lot about people with little kids. And then my aunts have a two year old and a three month old. I was just visiting them and it is, and they have two dogs and they have two cats also. And it is a lot of caretaking right now. And

that might be a season that somebody is in is in a lot of caretaking. And so the acknowledgement too of like that, that might be the place, but that doesn't mean you can't play. That means it might be even more important for you to play and having watched, having watched my mom be a martyr to her own play and I love her and she has passed and she would talk about all this as well. Like that's not what you have to give your kids. That's not what you have to give the people around you that you care take.

And it is, and it might be tricky to figure out and the season might, might feel tricky, but it's going to be worth it. Even if it's, even if it's bite size, even if it's pocket size play, it's going to be worth it.

Mm.

Grey (01:12:18.318)
I think speaking to this social media aspect and connecting with other people too is important that, you know, of course social media, there's so many problems with it and it's, I think, driven a lot of the loneliness in certain ways that we experience in the world. There's a lot, there are a lot of downsides to it. And this is a space that didn't exist for a lot of our human history where like we have space to tell our own stories and to

share ourselves and to connect and all these kinds of things. And I actually think it's a really beautiful, powerful tool that we have. And we have the ability also, I believe, to transform it and to actually make it more conscious, a more conscious community in a space where we can actually foster genuine connection and relationships and all these kinds of things. Like, obviously you and I connected through Instagram. Like we used to teach at the same studio and like...

Bonnie (01:13:12.782)
Mm-hmm.

Grey (01:13:16.59)
in the same circles, of course, but like we connected through Instagram and being able to see each other's lives and expressions and those kinds of things and like foster that relationship through it. my hope, because I feel that play is so healing and collaboration is so necessary for us to move into a new paradigm of living, that my hope is people can use this as an opportunity to create more conscious.

connections, whether that's again, like in a small circle of people or larger and this space where we can also be more authentically expressing and finding our people through that, through the authenticity and through that, that giving ourselves permission and being more audacious and all these kinds of things that often we're told not to be and that will suffer consequences.

Bonnie (01:13:56.072)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Bonnie (01:14:05.175)
Mm.

Grey (01:14:11.146)
even potentially professionally and socially as a consequence of doing it. I'm in part of why I'm here is like, I want to challenge that. And I think that that we are so freaking powerful, like we are so, powerful. We have so much capacity in this and our stories and our expressions are so healing and so generative. And this is a really beautiful space that we that so many of us have access to that's free and

Bonnie (01:14:11.918)
Mm-hmm.

Grey (01:14:38.464)
we can take more creative control over what it is that we're putting out into the world and what we're a part of.

Bonnie (01:14:42.094)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. This is making me think about one thing with social media that in some conversations with folks, they're like, my gosh, all my friends and family are following and they don't want to like see my yoga posts. Like, and now you're going to be like, now I'm putting on something in my closet and making a picture. Like, are they going to want to see that? So there's going to, there could be these questions that come up in you. So invitation.

Yes, you could post, you can do the things. You'll be like, you know what? They're just gonna have deals. They don't have to follow you, PS, they don't have to follow you. Like you can let them do whatever they wanna do. And you could also create a whole new account. You don't have to put your, like you can put your name on it. You don't have to put a last name on it. And then you can write and you can connect from that new play experiment account.

Grey (01:15:18.595)
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie (01:15:38.392)
And so if you wanna do this and you want to share, but you don't wanna do it from your own page, then make something else. Like it's free, just make something else.

Grey (01:15:47.074)
Yeah.

I think that's a really beautiful invitation. And it's making me think about how Rick Rubin talks about how context changes content. And Richard talking about creating this other account, I know I used to have one that was more like my kinky, the sexy account. And it was like creating that container for myself where I got to just express in different kinds of ways. Like it allowed me to show up differently and to say different things and to act in different kinds of ways. But I needed that.

Bonnie (01:15:58.254)
Mm.

Bonnie (01:16:15.181)
Mm-hmm.

Grey (01:16:19.424)
that container that felt like a space I could drop into, right? So the context changed the content of what it is that I was sharing and how it was showing up. And so yeah, if that's what you need to do, that's a form of play too. Go nuts.

Bonnie (01:16:32.846)
Yeah, that's why I separated my account too. Like I have my sexy Sunday with Bonnie account. that's, it feels like a totally different way that I can drop in. Totally.

Okay. So the deets, the link to sign up is in the bio or is in the bio is in the show notes. So go to the show notes. You can sign up with us. the, the first day, so January 1st, we're doing every day, the video will be dropped the day before. So sign up, we have a weekly giveaway. So if you want to be part of that, the sooner you sign up, the more options that you have to get a giveaway, something that we will send to you. We're going to.

stick it in the mail for you from us. so do that. it's 120 bucks. You get one payment or three payments. We're going to have zooms on Fridays. Yes, we will send out replays and that that's, and then there's bonus missions. We'll have bonus missions. If you want more, they're five to 15 minutes. I'm like, okay, what else? What are the details? Like five to 15 minutes. So like, what's your time commitment is like.

Grey (01:17:34.094)
I have to continue.

Bonnie (01:17:39.886)
It can be pocket size, right? You can make this small. can personalize this to what your availability is in the day and where you're at. And then of course, make it as infinitely long as you want. But really we're thinking like five to 15 minutes, make it short because 31 days is a lot of days, but we kind of want to build this for our lives. Yeah. Like we want to build this as like, this is our life that we're paying attention to.

And daily, if we're paying attention, we can see where play is already a part of it. And these are just invitations for us to see this. So hopefully then our hope is like that really it becomes woven within what your experience already is. And maybe it's an invitation to have other people in your family who you live with even do the things with you, your kids. Like there's a lot of wiggle room in that.

Grey (01:18:33.89)
Yeah. I just want to say too, as you're talking about this, like building this practice and the sustainability, and as we've shared that there are going to be these different levels of engagements, like if right now in January this month, these 31 days, it feels like you have the time and the space for the five to 15 minutes, not the other things. But maybe, you're going to have access to these materials and they're going to be

recommendations for books and podcasts and all these different things you can listen to if you want to explore deeper learning and practices. And so you'll have this whole resource kit that you can come back to. You can progressively deepen your practices as you have time and space. And so, yeah, this is really meant to help template in a lot of ways what might be a way of being and a way of living in the world. And it's all like

It's a process and we're starting small and there's no place you have to arrive at the end of this month. And I think removing that kind of expectation and barrier is great for ourselves.

Bonnie (01:19:29.058)
Mm.

Bonnie (01:19:35.33)
Yeah.

Bonnie (01:19:41.326)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Good reminder of that. This is going to be available. All the content is going to be available. You have it. Once you have it, it's going to be alive for as long as my site is alive. So I think legally you're not supposed to say forever because it technically won't be forever, you know, because forever is forever. But it's like it's not going anywhere. So you're going to be able to revisit this through this whole entire year and beyond. And

This is our experiment. This is Gray's and my first time hosting something like this collaboratively like this. And that feels very exciting. are. I'm figuring it out as we go, which is part of the play that I enjoy in my own creation process of saying like, great, the process of it is part of the play. And so thank you for being here for play with us and playing with us. Thanks for playing with us. Come play.

Grey (01:20:15.918)
So we're playing.

for reference.

Grey (01:20:34.402)
Thanks for playing with us friends.

Bonnie (01:20:37.262)
Come get your pocket size play on and we are looking forward to hearing your shares and how it impacts you, what you learn, what lights you up, what maybe makes you pause, and where you find pleasure in the process and a fuck ton of permission. That's what we're open for.

Grey (01:20:58.647)
next.

Bonnie (01:21:00.558)
Hmm. is going to be amazing.

Grey (01:21:01.582)
So excited. It's gonna be amazing. I'm so looking forward to how this all unfolds and what comes up for us in the process and everyone else and what we get to be a part of. So grateful to be participating and thank you for inviting me.

Bonnie (01:21:20.694)
Yeah, absolutely. Okay friends, go sign up. We'll meet you there and we'll start January 1.

Grey (01:21:32.206)
Thanks.